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Time to buy a Wolf License!

Discussion in 'Hunting' started by usmarine0352_2005, May 4, 2012.

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  1. usmarine0352_2005

    usmarine0352_2005 Member

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    http://minnesota.publicradio.org/display/web/2012/05/03/dayton-oks-environmental-bill/





    Some said there should be a 5 year moratorium on not killing wolves to do studies on them......uhm, isn't that what the last 30 years was?



    Wisconsin's Governor already signed their wolf hunt into law this year.



    Also, by pushing for license increases hunters and fisherman prove they do more for wildlife, wetlands, and the environment than anyone else.
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  2. tri70

    tri70 Member

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    I hear a lot of people talk how the wolves have destroyed deer/elk heards, farmers will shoot on sight, they do a lot more damage than coyotes to cattle heards.
     
  3. walking arsenal

    walking arsenal Member

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    Wolves don't do nearly as much damage to livestock as wild dogs do and I've not met a farmer or property owner who has ever caught a wolf in the act of killing their livestock.

    I'm not saying it can't happen. There are always exceptions. But when we used to raise horses and such I caught and shot a lot of neighbor dogs that where in the act of chasing and chewing on our animals. Labs, Rottweilers, Dobermans mostly but never a coyote or wolf.

    I know a lot of farmers who like to blame the wolves and who have shot them on sight regardless.

    I think it is a lot of misplaced anger personally.
     
  4. usmarine0352_2005

    usmarine0352_2005 Member

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    My friend watched helplessly as a pack of wolves killed his lab and tore up another. If you live on the Northshore you will meet plenty of people who have lost pets to wolves.



    I've found plenty of deer wolf kills too. Not a farmer and don't know any but I know the government traps a lot of wolves that kill livestock.
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  5. walking arsenal

    walking arsenal Member

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    Well sure. Dogs are just another wolf to a pack. They're viewed as competition.

    And deer are the prey species of wolves so that's normal.
     
  6. Feanor

    Feanor member

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    I live right there, and frankly your statement is completely erroneous, could you cite some official documents? I get a notification automatically when any gray wolf depredation takes place in either Minnesota, Wisconsin, or the UP of Michigan. Most people living in the great lakes region have never even seen a gray wolf! I respond frequently to complaints from ranchers & farmers in northwestern Wisconsin, always they are looking to blame their losses on the back of these iconic animals, yet I routinely discover that they have great difficulty distinguishing the difference between gray wolves and their little cousin, the coyote! Frequently I have these ranchers lead me to coyote sign, which they have confused for wolf sign, or often they just are looking to collect on a dead, or lost animal, and the best way to do that is to cry wolf!

    Allow me to put things in some perspective for you, Wisconsin has about 40,000 black bear, a conservatively estimated 60,000 coyotes, 5,000 or so Bobcats, millions of birds, fowl, foxes, raccoons, scunks, ect..and a white tail deer herd that runs steadily between 1-2,000,000 strong, the nations largest, as is our black bear population!

    This winters wolf count, just released, lists a gray wolf population of just 783 animals, in some two hundred packs(two wolves comprise a pack)! The vast majority of these animals are in the northern third of the state. Yet they are blamed for every unfortunate thing that takes place. We have a barbaric bear hunting system in place, where "sport killers" are allowed to run the bear with radio collared hounds, they are free to "train" these hounds pretty much all summer long in preperation for the fall killing season!

    Guess what, their maurauding hounds encounter gray wolves frequently, unfortunately for the "gps tracked hounds," the gray wolves are not impressed by them, and routinely kill them as they transgress on the wolves den, and rendevous sites. In NW Wisconsin(Indianhead country)its safe to say that these bear killers(its not hunting)are despised by virtually everyone! When I was a boy in Alaska, we shot such dogs, especially dogs that ran game. In Wisconsin, these "bear killers" get $5,000 per dog courtesy of the taxpayer, a black outrage!

    The deer hunting lobby tries to piggyback upon this gray wolf hysteria, typically making ridiculously stupid, and completely unfounded complaints, decrying the gray wolfs decimation of the poor, defenseless deer herd. Consider, this years deer count was an estimated 1.400,000 animals, after humans culled 450,000 of them in the fall! A gray wolf consumes about 15-20 deer per year, which adds up to just under 16,000 deer killed by gray wolves annually! How many deer do you think are killed by automobiles each year in Wisconsin? Wisconsin deer hunters illegally shot seven gray wolves this past season! Ranchers & farmers routinely kill gray wolves illegally!

    As a hunter & a trapper(40 + years)I am opposed to these upcoming wolf kills, did you know that Wisconsin intends to duplicate its bear hunting tactics by allowing the "sport killers" the use of up to six dogs armed with spiked, and shock emitting collars? Unlike the bear, the gray wolves will not be run, they will turn and attempt to defend their den sites, it will be savage, and it will be bloody. We sent Michael Vick to federal prison for something far more civilized, it would appear that the state only responded to him as it did, because they felt they were being cheated out of their cut of the spoils!

    When you choose to live on the "northshore of Lake Superior, and Lake Superior national forest" you should understand that you are living in the last great wilderness area in the entire lower forty eight, far wilder then anything left out west, and that includes both Yellowstone & Glacier national parks. You should be expected to fully understand that when you wander out into these great wilderness areas, you and your animals are entering into the foodchain.
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2012
  7. usmarine0352_2005

    usmarine0352_2005 Member

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    Not sure how you can find my statement completely erroneous when it's easy to prove.




    Here is a wolf kill'd deer that we pushed the wolves off of minutes after they killed it. How do I know it was wolves? My friend to the left watched it happen.


    Have you ever seen wolf tracks? They are huge compared to coyotes and most dogs.


    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]



    If you live up there you will know people who have had pets killed by wolves. It's common. The friend I talked about saw 2 of his dogs killed by wolves at different times. He's the guy pictured on the left. Last year deer hunting he didn't see any deer in his yard, which is unusual but he saw numerous wolves and one time when we were driving into his place a wolf ran right in front of our trucks as we pulled in. No wonder he doesn't have any deer around last year.


    I also like how you say my statement is completely erroneous and ask for citations while you yourself don't have any.



    Well, here you go. The number of problems wolves keeps rising, thus the number killed keeps rising.


    http://timberwolfinformation.org/info/archieve/newspapers/viewnews.cfm?ID=8143




    Also the last time wolves were counted was in 2008, 4 years ago, they were at 2,391 in Minnesota. The population would most likely grow, not shrink since then.


    http://www.minnpost.com/community-voices/2012/04/minnesotas-wolves-dead-or-alive



    Wolves are adaptable and tough creatures which is proven by this study in Montana. Even with a high mortality rate the wolf population continued to rise.



    http://missoulian.com/news/local/article_5b79e490-60a1-11df-b4ff-001cc4c03286.html#ixzz1u7plHgEr



    As humans encroach onto the last remaining wilderness the amount of land for the wild animals will go down, because of that the number of wild animals usually needs to go down also. That's just the way it is. If that's a problem for you then you need to stop people from moving into the wilderness. I just don't see that happening though.



    So where are your citations please?
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  8. HGUNHNTR

    HGUNHNTR Member

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    Wolves are part of a healthy ecosystem. Predation is the cost of doing business in nature. If you raise animals in an environment that has predators it is rediculous to expect anything but predation. The older I get the more intolerance I have for people killing animals purely for sport, and the notion that their livestock are worth more than a healthy ecosystem.
     
  9. usmarine0352_2005

    usmarine0352_2005 Member

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    People are encroaching on the lands of wild animals. Animals and people can exist together but the number of large wild animals usually has to go down. Because of the introduction of man into the forests it leaves less room for animals, predator and prey alike and their population must be kept in check. It would be foolish to think you would only monitor the prey population and not the predator population or vice versa.
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  10. Art Eatman

    Art Eatman Administrator Staff Member

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    HGUNHNTR, it's an ancient problem: Folks acquired this nasty habit of eating, many generations back. Whatever predator interferes with the provision of food gets killed or notably reduced in numbers. Wolves, coyotes, cougars and bears around livestock, birds in the grain fields, mice in the granaries. Coons, possums, snakes and such around the poultry.

    And folks have been arguing over the methodology for a long, long time. I, myself, tend to take the view of the farmers and ranchers, up to an ill-defined point, having BTDT. :) But as an outdoorsman of over seventy years, I sorta like the idea of having the big predators around--but not in my corral. :D
     
  11. Feanor

    Feanor member

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    Also, the OP makes hyperbolic statements pertaining to commononality of these attacks, make no mistake, wolves will depredate any canine that transgresses their territory, that means if you own a dog in wolf country you are responsible for your dogs well being, nonetheless, the vast majority of dog(pet)depredation centers around a certain type of dog, the kind that run in packs for the purpose of treeing bobcat, or bear! Stories of how some guy lost his poor black lab while forced to watch are automatically relegated to the re-cycle bin as pure nonsense, and I expect a cite to substantiate them as legitimate!

    Tracks? ;)
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2012
  12. usmarine0352_2005

    usmarine0352_2005 Member

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    I agree that you must watch out for your pets, however I don't think what type of dog you have makes it better when they are killed.


    I know a few people who have lost pets and none of them were hunting dogs. As a matter of fact I don't anyone up there who even has dogs that are trained for treeing animals or hunting whatsoever. I don't know anyone up there who hunts bears, cougars, or bobcats with dogs. The only people I know who hunt bear hunt them over bait stations.




    Stories where a majority of pets that are killed by wolves were pets that were actually trained to tree bobcats and bears will automatically be relegated to the re-cycle bin as pure nonsense, and I expect a cite to substantiate them as legitimate!
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  13. Art Eatman

    Art Eatman Administrator Staff Member

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    Arrgghhh! Objectivity, please. Don't make me force-feed the Valium! :D
     
  14. 351 WINCHESTER

    351 WINCHESTER Member

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    God himself put all the creatures on this earth for a reason. Is it possible he put wolves and other predators (including man) to weed out the sickly and weak so the strong will survive? Man needs to figure out a way to co-exist with all of God's creatures and have respect for all that we consume. Man has totally messed up what God made perfect and man cannot make it right as much as we want to.

    Don't get me wrong, I've been a hunter for 45 years or so and I have taken my share of animals and reptiles, but I have much more respect for His critters than I ever have.

    What would happen if the wolf population and other predators were depleted to the point where deer and other animals populations got out of control? Starvation, disease?
     
  15. usmarine0352_2005

    usmarine0352_2005 Member

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    But we are co-existing. And no one here is saying kill all wolves.




    If God made us, how do you know we aren't doing exactly what he wants?
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  16. hogshead

    hogshead Member

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    "We have a barbaric bear hunting system in place, where "sport killers" are allowed to run the bear with radio collared hounds, they are free to "train" these hounds pretty much all summer long in preperation for the fall killing season!"
    You calling hunting with hounds barbaric then admitting you are a trapper is kind of like a possum calling a rat a long tailed sob. I guess trapping an animal is sporting. Would love to turn a pack of plotts on the last wolf in your neck of the woods. We would see what your beloved supposedly vegetarian wolf would do with that.
     
  17. Feanor

    Feanor member

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    You didn't read the cite I presented you from the WDNR which thoroughly validates my statement. Also, you posted a bunch of nonsense that has absolutely zero linkage with my point on "sport killing" by SUV imbedded lumps, following packs of radio collared hounds to a tree'd animal.

    I also alerted you to the size of the Wisconsin wolf population, a paltry 700 some animals, you responded by posting a purported photo of your hunting party depriving a wolf of its hard earned meal, then some links and references to the cessation of the trapping program which is completely off topic, and not germane to my point, or my position. Further, your posted image and statement about driving a wolf from its prey indicates rather strongly, an ignorant belief, that you were entitled to do so, for some obscure moral reason. Humans harvest as many as 500,000 deer each year in Wisconsin alone, wolves but a paltry 13,000 - 16,000! We could easily double the Wisconsin wolf population and not even match the yearly tally of deer destroyed by automobile collisions!

    To clarify, my position is that gray wolves are not a game species, that they roam but 5% of there former range, and that as a keystone predator their participation in the natural order is far far more important then "your right to thrill kill!" I fully support the trapping, and culling of troublesome animals, or packs, beyond that it is my belief that the gray wolves are to be left alone, but observed, to see if they will arrive at a natural equillibrium on their own.
     
  18. ApacheCoTodd

    ApacheCoTodd Member

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    So, an above do-gooder "pushed the wolves off of (Bambi) minutes after they killed it" certainly causing the same wolves to hunt down and kill another. Way to go!

    I wonder if they went on to take down a domesticated animal for survival nutrition.
     
  19. wyocarp

    wyocarp Member

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    That is an easy statement to make when living in Georgia. It isn't so easy when the government buys wolves from Canada that are much larger than the native wolves that were here and protects them to the point that every other game animal is in danger. What we have is far from healthy and it's sickening to have people talk about topics that they know nothing about.

    Bringing wolves from Canada is like filling southern states with crocs from Africa.

    There is some against killing for sport. These wolves kill for sport.
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2012
  20. wyohome

    wyohome Member

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    ^ Exactly right wyocarp, some of these people watch too many 'Green Planet' TV shows.
     
  21. hogshead

    hogshead Member

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    "sport killing" by SUV imbedded lumps, following packs of radio collared hounds to a tree'd animal.
    Its clear you know nothing about hunting with hounds and fast becoming clear you know nothing.
     
  22. tarosean

    tarosean Member

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    Didnt know they were smart enough to stay on their side of the border? I do find it odd that you would try and compare non-native species to one that once was a native species. Funny how all these species co-existed for tens to hundreds of thousands of years till we showed up and decided to settle areas.

    Why is no one crying for the extinction/banning of the automobile? After all, it kills far more wildlife, of any kind, than predators could ever dream of.
     
  23. hogshead

    hogshead Member

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    Now we need to ban cars. This post is fading fast.
     
  24. tarosean

    tarosean Member

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    Sorry, I have issues with people who think they will decimate everything living and breathing. The only thing that kills more than man is the lowly mosquito.

    Dont like wolves, buy a tag.. several states offer them.
     
  25. Feanor

    Feanor member

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    A clueless statement, based on your emotions, not the facts.
     
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