Timothy Egan: Myth of the Hero Gunslinger...Or, rather, the Myth of Good Journalism

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Captain33036

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The sad events in Tucson could not go without good use by the mainstream press. Below is a link to the above mentioned Op-Ed, The Myth of the Hero Gunslinger:

http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/01/20/myth-of-the-hero-gunslinger/?emc=eta1

The obvious tenet of the author is that value, to society, of gun ownship and carrying of concealed weapons is a myth that should be refuted in order for society to wake up and understand that guns should be very strictly controlled, if allowed at all.

But, let's read exactly what the author has written to understand their argument to the masses [with a couple of annotations to point out how the argument is constructed]:

“In fact, several people were armed. So, what actually happened? As Zamudio said in numerous interviews, he never got a shot off at the gunman, but he nearly harmed the wrong person — one of those trying to control Loughner.”

“To his credit, he ultimately helped subdue Loughner. But suppose, in those few seconds of confusion, he had fired at the wrong man and killed a hero? “I was very lucky,” Zamudio said.


[Tactic bolded and underlined: here he draws the reader away from the facts, creates a NEW set of facts by speculation and then ends with an emotional argument. Got to love it!]


"It defies logic, as this case shows once again, that an average citizen with a gun is going to disarm a crazed killer. For one thing, these kinds of shootings happen far too suddenly for even the quickest marksman to get a draw. For another, your typical gun hobbyist lacks training in how to react in a violent scrum.”


[Tactic underlined and bolded: Statement that anything other than THE authors conclusion is not logical. Stating UP FRONT that if you do not agree with him…YOU are an idiot. ] :barf:

[The second point regarding training....one must admire how this author inserts OPINION as if it were FACT.] :barf:


So, the logic of the writers argument is that a legally armed civilian can do NOTHING ...and if he were to do something ....that it would be something TERRIBLY wrong and result in the deaths of innocent people. Thus, no one but the state should have guns.

WOW. Nicely done. :eek:

You, no doubt can see the obvious flaw. In fact, the facts support the opposite conclusion. A legally armed civilian WAS prepared to act and DID in fact make the CORRECT decision to NOT fire. There was no clear field of fire and no clear perpetrator....hmmm..... Training? Luck? Smart? Educated? Perhaps actually did some reading of what a responsibly armed individual SHOULD and SHOULD NOT do?? Gee whiz.

Further, this agenda driven author uses this one single scenario to support his general argument (later on in the piece...I did not want to abuse you with more) that civilian ownership of guns simpy cannot be used for protection. That this is a myth. This conflates two disparate issues ….a well known tactic and handholds the reader, taking the unsuspecting down a completely erroneous path. The government supported facts are that guns are used to protect individuals every single day and that a scenario such as this one is extremely rare to the point where nothing could have been done. Not even the police could have done anything in this situation.

So, an intellectually dishonest tactic used to draw an agenda driven conclusion that was not supported by the facts.

We really must sit back and admire the persistence. They do keep trying.

My best to all

John
 
Once one introduces all that possibly could have happened, but didn't, illogical arguments have free rein.

Funny how people like him start out with some statement about their familiarity with guns. But miss the critical point that it's all about people and their character, not pieces of metal.

Why not stress the fact that Zamudio had a gun and chose not to use it to subdue someone he thought was a threat. That is in line with how we think, a gun is A tool, not THE tool.

The "journalist" should have taken things much further and hypothesized about all the CCW holders in the store suddenly getting caught up in Loughner's frenzy and joining in.

That scenario is just as good as the other one he chose that did NOT happen.
 
I was once confronted by a person who stated that "there was no legitimate proof that an armed citizen had ever defended themselves in a proper manner" and that all such talk was "myth". I simply directed him to http://www.nraila.org/armedcitizen/ and advised him to search for his state. As far as I know, all the "armed citizen" articles are backed up by local television or written media.
 
don’t think these are reasons to disarm the citizenry. That’s never going to happen, nor should it. But the Tucson shootings should discredit the canard that we need more guns at school, in the workplace, even in Congress.

This quote from the article pretty much sums up Egan's point.

I agree with this article mostly. I do believe the author is left tilted to the point of not liking the idea of many armed citizens walking among us.

For another, your typical gun hobbyist lacks training in how to react in a violent scrum.

Exactly. Most CCWers are hobbyists. Not everyone has the luxury of going to LFI or having been in the military and even used weapons in combat to have the experience necessary to react to violent encounters. This is why I am all for training classes before one can get a permit. Im for constitutional carry as a rights activist but I think that allowing anyone to carry willy nilly is an invitation to disaster. We have licenses to drive a car for a reason just as we have licenses to carry a firearm concealed. Open carry, though a great idea to promote awareness is not generally something I take seriously.

What I garner most from this article though is that even though I tend to agree that anyone who has the means to stop violence from happening should do so, I also understand situations are never clear cut and in the heat of the moment mistakes can and will be made.

Moral of the story: You carry a weapon to defend yourself.

This can also extend to your family and of course there are other considerations but that is the most of it. Legally you can defend anyone but that is a risk you can take for yourself. In the end your best bet is to escape and evade while calling the police.
 
CCW's are mostly hobbyists?

Are there statistics to validate that statement?

I do not have any statistics regarding that but I make the following inferences.

Currently, the State of Florida has about 773,000 CCW permit holders.

http://licgweb.doacs.state.fl.us/stats/licensetypecount.html


Florida also has 1,715,000 veterans in the state:

http://www1.va.gov/opa/publications/factsheets/ss_florida.pdf

Retired LEO's with CCW permits in FL number: 6624.

http://licgweb.doacs.state.fl.us/stats/licensetypecount.html

Judges add another 510 CCW permits in the state of Florida.

The Florida CCW website also shows the number of permits issues to security officers, private investigators, etc etc. This number is close to 200,000. Would you think many or most of them have CCW permits as well?

How many current LEO's, current military, retired military, veterans etc etc....would we add in? How about the hundreds if not thousands of people who work at gun shops (there is a GS every 5 miles where I live in FL...and FL is a big state)? SO....there are millions of people in Florida that have an interest in, training in and are comfortable with the use of firearms, that might be CCW holders.

And what about all the people that might not have a military or LE background but might be NRA safety trained?

Anyone's guess is as good as anyone else's, but I would venture that, at least in the State of Florida, a very high percentage of CCW permit holder have firearms training or experience...and are...not quite hobbyists.

Best

J
 
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Hey everybody, we all know that having a gun toting hero never helps in any situation, having a whole herd of un-armed sheeple/victims ALWAYS works out much better! :uhoh:

The "myth" here is that an "unarmed" population is "safer"!
 
I have not read anything here or elsewhere that indicated that any of the crowd at the gathering was armed at the time of the shooting other than the crazed gunman. If anyone knows of an article somewhere to the contrary please post a link to it here.

Second, from what I can tell Zamudio never even drew his weapon. So much for "fingering his weapon".

As discussed in this previous thread armed citizens have indeed stopped mass shootings: http://www.thehighroad.org//showthread.php?t=270374
 
No I dont have any documentation on the majority of CCWers being hobbyists.

I would wager that the VAST majority of them are either hobbyists or even less into guns than that. There are people with permits that only own one gun and it is a KelTec P3AT or a snubby or something else that is easily concealable.

You will not get a good sample of these people on this forum because everyone here is hobbyist or above in terms of firearms handling and knowledge.
 
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