Tips on converting antis?

[Ukraine Train]

I'm looking for ideas on things to say to my friends, peers, etc. that are either anti- or on the fence about RKBA to bring them over to our side. Most of these people are college age and several are female. I think the best one I've come up with is, "what do you do if you're home alone and someone breaks in?", or something along those lines. I think the way to go about it is present the thought of keeping a gun as common sense. Suggestions?

 

[4570Rick]

Have them come over to your home, then play Innocence Betrayed for them.

 

[Ukraine Train]

Heh, that sounds like a movie from Lifetime. I've never heard of it.

 

[4570Rick]

Ukraine Train

Check out this thread.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=39546

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To order it, see individuals' comments on it, etc., please go to:

http://www.jpfo.org/ib-orders.htm

 

[Drjones]

I've found that it often works to your advantage to turn their questions/positions/thoughts back on them.

Rather than try to explain everything to them, when they say or ask something, turn it back on them.

If they say "no one should be allowed to own guns," ask them why.

If they say they are for gun control, ask them if prohibition of alcohol/drugs has been successful. When they reply in the negative (probably with some hemming and hawing like "you can't compare alcohol to guns) ask them why they think that banning/restricting guns would work any better.

Ask them why they fear law-abiding citizens who own guns.

Etc....

 

[Bill Hook]

You could just agree with them that nobody should own guns, including police and the military.

They'll probably say something about not all countries giving up guns, or criminals having guns still. Or they may say something about that anything other than guns would be ineffective for military and police to defend and protect us and themselves.

You have just gotten them to concede the need for guns, now you just have to convince them that all citizens have the same rights.

 

[Mark Tyson]

Take 'em shooting.

(course, that's my answer to everything)

 

[PeteyPete]

I agree w/ Mark...Just take em to the range. One trip to the range w/ a 9mm or .22 will turn most antigunners. It also helps to encourage them w/ comments like:

"Damn, your a natural!!! I was never that good my first time shooting!"

"Have you done this before?!? Your doing great!!"

"Wow...I've never seen anyone shoot this well their first time!"

You get the point...

 

[Waitone]

Few points to consider:

--Logic won't work. Any argumentation will need a heavy component of emotion.

--Plan for a long term process of change. Change will not be quick unless one of your friends is mugged, threatened, shot at, or scared beyond measure.

--Listen carefully to their objections to RKBA, fashion a counter argument to one or two of their points, then inject doubt into their belief system. Doubt is the gift that keeps on giving. It works when you are not there.

--Drop the idea of taking one or all to the range. Don't push, just drop the hint and expect it to take time to develop.

--Emphasize safety. rmember, if your buds are like most anti's they are well-schooled in unsafe firearms handling. After all, they do watch, TV, movies, and play video games. If you are watch the tube and see a particularly boneheaded example of unsafe handling, point it out.

--Converting anti's is a variant of the sport of fishing, not hunting.

 

[geekWithA.45]

Get the "grampa jack" pamphlet "Do gun prohibitionists have a mental problem?" from JPFO.

It covers anti psychology, and how to sucessfully interact with them.

 

[Baba Louie]

http://www.utahstatesman.com/news/519930.html

U T, I "borrowed" the above from WAGCEVP's thread. MOST EXCELLANT POINTS when speaking with members of the female persuasion providing they're "fence-sitters" as opposed to hard-core Anti's. One has an open mind and might want to better understand the issue, whereas a H-C-Anti is a waste of your time other than offering them a cheery, "I hope, for your sake, that the Police are always nearby in case you or a family member is ever confronted by an Eeeevil-doer, ner-do-well criminal type."

In the Las Vegas Metro Citizen's Police Academy, they gave us a quote that has stuck with me (Class of 91) lo these 12 years. Each BG they catch and lock up has, on the average, 254 "criminal" incidents scott free before getting caught and possible incarceration. Often times the BG is back on the street before the Police Officer is finished with the paperwork from their shift. At that time Metro had a total staff of a little over 2,000 with only 450 patrol officers. Divide that into three shifts. 150 Officers/shift for how many citizens in how big a town? They've grown some since then, but so has the general populace of LV.

What are the numbers in your town?

Asking them those types of questions, coupled with some form of background facts prior to asking and throw in some of the quotes from the above mentioned link, followed up with an invitation to go shooting... well, that's about as much as one person can or should do IMO. After that, they're on their own in the flock.

But if you can only save One Child by getting them to think for themself, it was worth the effort.

Adios

 

[Kaylee]

I like Waitone's comments a lot.

Also, given --

-- most of the anti-self-defense feeling I've come into contact with has come about because of a pretty lefty upbringing

-- college-age tends to bring out the radical in kids

and

-- the leftover ill feelings of the 2000 election among diehard lefties...


Something that sometimes causes cranial vapor lock is "are you absolutely CERTAIN you want the only guns in the country in the hands of those who selected George Bush?"

not as useful for those who're anti 'cause they saw/knew someone who did something stupid and so got hurt (easier to believe All Guns Are Evil than to believe someone you love was a Darwin candidate)

-K

 

[Glock Glockler]

Building on some of the comment previously made:

- Bring only 1 anti to the range at a time, and make sure there are plenty of pro-RKBAers there who want to assist in the effort. If you bring a female anti make sure there is at least one pro female there as well. The purposeof this is to take advantage of "social proof", which is the idea that people will follow the herd when they're not sure what to do.

My brother brought 2 anti females to the range once and it was an absolute disaster. The were both unsure and basically mutually supported and affirmed each others opinions of being anti, and they left the range more anti than before. This issue seems to be very dependant it's stereotypes relating to the different sexes. Women are more easily antis because it's a "guy's thing" to be into guns, probably related to their primative need for aggression and violence, where as women are nurturers of children who would so abhor such an evil weapon that could kill one of their children. That is the pitch that is typically used.

Women being at the range is invaluable for converting female antis and extremely helpful for converting male antis. This is especially true if the female outshoots the male while lacking any fear of guns herself. At that point you're really digging into the ego of the male, it'll be a matter of pride for him to 1) not be afraid of something if an iddle widdle girl has no fear of it, and to 2) shoot better than said iddle widdle girl in something which is considered a male activity.

Also remember to keep it fun, the more they enjoy it the more they'll be for it. You could even go so far as to get ice cream afterwards and make sure that you pick up the tab. This will 1) show that you're nice and 2) invoke feeings of reciprocity that might prompt them to make ideological concessions by adopting your views.

Speaking of reciprocity, when discussing the issue with an anti make sure that you appear flexible and humble in your overall attitude. No one likes to be made to feel stupid, and that is what you will accomplish if you ruthlessly rip apart their arguements. A subtle approach works better. Concede on one of their points and they'll be more likely to concede to yours.

"You know, after hearing you put it that way, I do think that Bush is a bad president. I agree with you on that one"

When you make it a win-win situation they will far more readily agree than if it is a win/loose with them being the loosers.

Another thing is to make sure that bringing them to the range should be one of the latter stages in their conversion. Previous discussion of the issue, using boatloads of emotional popaganda and using hard logic as the final nails, will be necessary. You might think of it as using an artilery barage before sending in gound infantry to mop up. Another great tool is to introduce them to other pro-RKBAers who don't necessarily push the issue bt just help make the association of nice prson - proRKBA. This will fight the stereotype of the evil white male Klansman who's into guns.

It is also necessary that other pro-RKBAers do NOT smother these people to death with arguements and ideology. They don't have to be pro-gunners overnight and chances are they wont. Just exercise a little patience and bring them along little by little, just as the socialists have so successfully polluted America. This game is not a sprint but a marthon.

 

[Glock Glockler]

Something else to add: The best way of converting an anti is not directly address the issue of RKBA but is to identify and restructure their core belief system.

If someone has a very strong ideological belief in personal responsibility, you can easily make the case for RKBA; all you have to do is tie in that issue in a manner consistent with their other beliefs. If someone is a cafeteria libertarian (pick and choose where they support freedom) you can emphasize the idea of rights when it's in agreement with what they believe.

Not that I want to turn this into an abortion debate, but I know an anti that is as hardcore an abortion advocate as you'll ever find, when the subject of abortion came up would say "I agree with you, why should anyone be able to tell you what to do with your own body? What you do with your body is of no concern to anyone else, they therefore have no right to tell you what to do because you're not infringing on their rights". I would hammer that point home, and she would readily adopt it because it supported her point, but I would would turn it against her when we discussed RKBA and she would have no defense.

"My owning a gun causes no harm to anyone, why should my right to it be restricted any more than your right to have an abortion?" To really put the iceing on the cake I had a female friend then claim that she owned guns as a means of asserting her feminist ideals, that she was not going to be cast in th role of the damsel in distress waiting for the male in shining armor to save her from a rapist and murderer. After my female friend lent her a copy of Paxton Quigley's book (which was mine, BTW, shhhhhh) that was all she wrote, she soon became a hardened feminist RKBAer.

A point which is worthy of mention is that my target in that case was/is a school teacher. It would be foolish to assume that teachers do not color their classroom message with their political views, andthe more people you can convert that have a dispoportionate amount of influence the better off you'll be. We do not have an unlimited amount of resources, we must therefore be especially careful to use them as economically as possible. Going after people who are 1) convertable and people that 2) have a disporportionate amount of influence is key.

Imagine how valuable a pro-RKBA radio DJ would be? What about a priest or minister? What about a teacher? You don't have to convert a majority of the people out there to agreement with you in order to have RKBA reinstated, all you have to do is convert the active and influential minority and the mission will be accomplished.

What have you done for RKBA and freedom today?

 

[Graystar]

The underlying premise of anti-gunism is the belief that gun ownership leads to killings and random shootouts. It is the belief that guns turn people into criminals and maniacs. The anti-gunner perceives this situation as being far worse than not being able to defend yourself.

Of course, their beliefs are completely wrong. The key to turning an anti is to first demonstrate to them that their fears are unfounded. You can start by stating some simple facts:

During the past 10 years, the number of states that have shall issue carry laws increased from 9 to 35. However, in the same period the number of death by firearm dropped nearly in half.

According to the FBI’s Uniform Crime Reports, the states with the most restrictive gun laws have the most crime. Conversely, states with view gun laws generally have low crime rates.

According to the National Crime Victimization Survey, a statistic compiled by the federal government, the best way to avoid being injured in a violent attack is to fight back with a gun. This method is even better than complying with an attacker.

In the 6 years since private gun ownership was practically banned in the UK, gun related crime has exploded, experiencing a 35% increase in the year 2002 alone.

Even with the gross under-reporting nature of their method, the federal government nonetheless estimates that over 100,000 people a year defend themselves successfully with a gun. To take guns away would be to submit 100,000 people to violent attack and possibly death.

This information should be a good start in showing an anti that the problem is not guns, but criminals. And criminals will be criminals whether or not they have guns.