MoreIsLess
Member
I have been using Win 231 for .45 acp loading. My LGS is out of 231 (and HP38) but they do have Titegroup. The load data appears similar for both on Hodgdon's website. Can someone compare the two of them.
Titegroup vs 231
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REL1203
Member
I prefer W231 in 45acp by far, its what it was designed for. I say wait to find some 231
DCoke
Member
I've been using Titegroup and will use it until it runs out and then I will find another powder. Titegroup is very dirty when fired and messy when reloading. It shoots fine, but I am hoping to find something better.
LiveLife
Member
I think that would depend on the bullet you are using and the powder charge.
IMO, Titegroup produces accurate target loads with jacketed/plated bullets but I think there are better powders for 45 target loads using lead bullets.
If you can't find W231/HP-38, I have found Green Dot to be close but I need to use a bit more powder (.2 gr) to produce comparable loads.
If you are using lead bullets, Red Dot/Promo/WST will produce accurate target loads that are clean burning.
IMO, Titegroup produces accurate target loads with jacketed/plated bullets but I think there are better powders for 45 target loads using lead bullets.
If you can't find W231/HP-38, I have found Green Dot to be close but I need to use a bit more powder (.2 gr) to produce comparable loads.
If you are using lead bullets, Red Dot/Promo/WST will produce accurate target loads that are clean burning.
OP
OP
MoreIsLess
Member
Titegroup are for "tightwads" like me as they don't require much powder to achieve the same velocity as most pistol powders including w231. it doesn't give me the optimal velocity as it achieves higher pressures, but it is great for plinking.
1lb of W231 will give me 1272 rounds while 1lb of titegroup about 1590 rounds
1lb of W231 will give me 1272 rounds while 1lb of titegroup about 1590 rounds
I'd choose 231 over TG at the same price. That said, I use TG. I've run TG in 9mm and .45acp with good results. It's fast so requires a bit more caution, especially at the high end. Otherwise, it's a good choice for an experienced reloader. Unique and BE get my vote over either though in .45acp.
OP
OP
MoreIsLess
Member
BE = Bulls Eye?
Blue68f100
Member
Any powder over TG......
WST, 231, WSF
WST, 231, WSF
sellersm
Member
In my testing with my loads and gun, TG is one of the more accurate powders. Go figure... It does need caution, however, but it will work fine.
I really like WST! Some of the Ramshot powders work really well too: Sillhouette, Zip, True Blue.
I really like WST! Some of the Ramshot powders work really well too: Sillhouette, Zip, True Blue.
THe Dove
BOOMER SOONER!!!
Well, I gotta say I like TG. Can't comment on the others, as I've only used Acurate #5 and TG.
The Dove
The Dove
Old Grumpy
Member
I've used lots of W231 in my .45acp loads and have had good dependable results with it. That being said my local supplier talked me into buying some Titegroup to try out. I have found it works in a lot of different calibers (about as many as Unique) and have found some very sweet .44mag loads. The most accurate .45acp load (in my weapons) uses Titegroup under 185gr LSWC.
I still bought W231 last week (another lb) and will continue to use it in some of my .45acp loads just as I will buy some more Titegroup when this lot runs out.
P.S. I've not found it any more "dirty" than a lot of other powders and a whole lot cleaner than the powder they use in some factory rounds.
I still bought W231 last week (another lb) and will continue to use it in some of my .45acp loads just as I will buy some more Titegroup when this lot runs out.
P.S. I've not found it any more "dirty" than a lot of other powders and a whole lot cleaner than the powder they use in some factory rounds.
1SOW
Member
Walkalong:
+ 1 Titegroup is dirty, runs very hot and has a touchy load range for some loads
231/HP-38 will run a little sooty with light loads, cleans up into mid-range and is very versatile and forgiving
+ 1 Titegroup is dirty, runs very hot and has a touchy load range for some loads
231/HP-38 will run a little sooty with light loads, cleans up into mid-range and is very versatile and forgiving
777TRUTH
Member
Yes it does.
Hondo 60
Member
If you're using plated or jacketed bullets, Tite Group is a great powder.
It has low recoil & is economical, as you use a lower charge than most other powders.
If you're using lead bullets... HOLY COW!
It smokes worse than Black Powder!
Lotsa lead particles to breathe in.
Accurate #2 or #5 would be better replacements with lead pills.
It has low recoil & is economical, as you use a lower charge than most other powders.
If you're using lead bullets... HOLY COW!
It smokes worse than Black Powder!
Lotsa lead particles to breathe in.
Accurate #2 or #5 would be better replacements with lead pills.
OP
OP
MoreIsLess
Member
Well, most people have indicated a preference of 231 over Titegroup so I won't be getting any of that. I'll just wait for some 231 or HP38
I have some Bullseye. How does that stack up to 231 for 45acp
I have some Bullseye. How does that stack up to 231 for 45acp
ArchAngelCD
Member.
I would also go with W231/HP-38 over TG any day. I load most of my handgun ammo with W231 especially for the .38 Special and .45 Auto. Way back during the "shortage" a buddy tried Ramshot Zip in place of W231/HP-38 and we both feel it's the same powder. If you can't find any W231/HP-38 and you can find Zip, give it a try...
1SOW
Member
ArchAngelCD:
Looks like a narrower load range and higher pressures than 231 for 9mm.
ZIP 90 HDY HP 4.4 1,128 5.1 1,280 34,911 1.070
ZIP 115 NOS JHP 3.8 933 4.3 1,048 32,916 1.077
ZIP 115 SIE FMJ 3.8 965 4.4 1,089 33,933 1.100
ZIP 124 HDY XTP-HP 3.2 864 3.7 967 34,893 1.060
ZIP 124 REM GS 3.9 935 4.6 1,055 34,880 1.145
ZIP 124 SPR GD 3.7 870 4.2 979 34,218 1.105
ZIP 125 SIE JHP 3.0 810 3.8 970 34,303 1.035
ZIP 147 REM BJHP 3.4 805 3.9 911 34,651 1.165
ZIP 147 SPR TMJ FN 3.1 762 3.5 857 34,533 1.130
Looks like a narrower load range and higher pressures than 231 for 9mm.
ZIP 90 HDY HP 4.4 1,128 5.1 1,280 34,911 1.070
ZIP 115 NOS JHP 3.8 933 4.3 1,048 32,916 1.077
ZIP 115 SIE FMJ 3.8 965 4.4 1,089 33,933 1.100
ZIP 124 HDY XTP-HP 3.2 864 3.7 967 34,893 1.060
ZIP 124 REM GS 3.9 935 4.6 1,055 34,880 1.145
ZIP 124 SPR GD 3.7 870 4.2 979 34,218 1.105
ZIP 125 SIE JHP 3.0 810 3.8 970 34,303 1.035
ZIP 147 REM BJHP 3.4 805 3.9 911 34,651 1.165
ZIP 147 SPR TMJ FN 3.1 762 3.5 857 34,533 1.130
ArchAngelCD
Member.
According to your data is does look different but close enough to use if there's no W231 available.
It sure looks like a kissing cousin at least.
I have not done side by side load comparisons with them, but can say Zip works very well in .45 ACP, and I would not hesitate to buy some if I could not get W-231/HP-38.
Fishslayer
Member
HP38/W231 every time over Titegroup. Too many stories involving Titegroup although they ARE generally involving 10mm Kurz and not .45ACP. Titegroup has a rep for being touchy.
Really apples & oranges. Titegroup is much faster than W231. I've tried W231 in .45ACP & wound up going back to Bullseye.
HP38/W231 is more in the Unique neighborhood on the burn rate chart.
http://www.hodgdon.com/burn-rate.html
Really apples & oranges. Titegroup is much faster than W231. I've tried W231 in .45ACP & wound up going back to Bullseye.
HP38/W231 is more in the Unique neighborhood on the burn rate chart.
http://www.hodgdon.com/burn-rate.html
Blue68f100
Member
Bullseye is a faster burn powder that TG and has been used for years. It's a fine flake powder so some dispensers may not like it.
If you can locate some WST or WSF (slower) works great with the 45acp. Both of these powders are ball, and fill the case nicely. WSF fills it slightly more. WST is the cleaner burning with both cleaner than 231. There is a lot more load data for WSF.
JDBoardman
Member
I use Clays (230 Gr. FMJ over 5.0 grains of Clays (NOT International) and find it to meter nicely. burn clean and give me a reliable, uniform load. Been using it for about 20 years, and really have found no reason to change. I use Titegroup in .380 and in .38. It works well in .380 since the case capacity is small, but I worry about the small volume in a .38 case. I use 2.2 grains behind a 148 gr HBWC for target loads in .38 SPC, and 2.0 - 2.8 grains depending on the bullet weight in .380. I find it MUCH cleaner burning than W231, but that's just my experience.
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