To bob or not to bob?

[fenriulven]

Wow, haven't been around here for a while! Anyway, I thought I'd pose a little question to the forum. Right now I have a second series Colt Detective special that has turned into my primary carry piece. Not that it's my preferred carry weapon, but it is the one that's on me most of the time (there was an incident with my P3AT, more on that later maybe), and I must confess, I am very fond of the little gun. Honestly, the gun points so well I don't even worry about sights (somehow they always seem to line up on target whether I do my job or not!) and the trigger is so smooth in DA I can't tell a difference in accuracy. In fact it may be the finest trigger pull I've ever encountered. Anyway, I'm considering bobbing the hammer. Mostly I'm thinking about doing this not because it snags very often (although I can see how this might happen in a high stress situation) but the hammer tends to jab me in a rather unpleasant fashion especially when it's just tucked into a waistband or sometimes even in an IWB. Mostly, its gets pocket carried though. What do you guys think? Will the reduced hammer mass be an issue and how will bobbing the hammer effect the gun's value (not that I'm looking to sell, but occasionally I do swap guns if something I really like comes along)? Also how will a spurless hammer affect holster retention? I ask all these questions because all of my revolvers still have their hammers...
Thanks everyone - Brian

 

[Zundfolge]

The only reason to bob is for pocket carry ... if you're carrying in the pocket than by all means bob (its not like you can't find a replacement hammer if you ever want to go back).

 

[Guillermo]

if you bob make it DAO

the reason for this is that if it were to be cocked, having no hammer spur there is no safe way to drop the hammer

 

[fenriulven]

re:

To decock Colts of that era, you can swing out the cylinder and dry fire...

 

[Guillermo]

you can swing out the cylinder and dry fire

nope

 

[fenriulven]

Uh, yes you can. Its right in front of me. I've had the gun for years, I think I know how it functions. Every other one I've had functions in exactly the same manner. If you don't know what you're talking about, please dont annoy the rest of us.

 

[fenriulven]

To clarify: if the hammer is at full cock and for whatever reason it is impossible to lower the hammer slowly (e.g. no hammer spur) all you have to do is swing out the cylinder and pull the trigger. Very simple, very safe for you and the gun.

 

[Guillermo]

your gun is broken

I own several colts including a Detective Special identical to the OP's and none will open when the gun is cocked

 

[Old Fuff]

In a Colt double-action revolver with 1908 era lockwork, which includes the D-frame Detective Special and Cobra models, the sideplate and hand that rotates the cylinder are both on the left-hand side. The cylinder ratchet is to the right of the hand. When the revolver is fully cocked the hand is extended into the frames window with the front and right side pressing against the ratchet and one of its teeth.

Since to open the cylinder requires the cylinder to rotate out to the left, the extended hand should block this movement. In addition the hammer block should be positioned so that when that hammer is at full-cock the cylinder latch (thumbpiece) cannot be drawn backwards far enough to release the cylinder.

Not having inspected fenriulven's revolver I cannot say what he can or can't do, but I will say that for the reasons explained above he shouldn't be able to do what he says he does.

I fully agree with Guillermo that revolvers that have bobbed hammers should be modified to DAO for safety reasons.

For sake of argument, if you cannot open the cylinder when a bobbed hammer is cocked, and slip while lowering it, you are going to be in a world of hurt.

 

[Lucky Derby]

I have seen an accessory for these old Colts that covers the hammer so as to prevent snagging and yet sill allow cocking. Basically making it similar to The S&W bodyguard models. I would try to find one for your revolver, rather than bobbing the hammer.

 

[Drail]

What I have always done is find another hammer for your model and bob it. Then you can always go back. I don't feel it's really necessary to render the gun DAO just because you bobbed the hammer, just make sure you understand that thumb cocking and decocking is no longer an option and don't even think of doing it. I know guys that can do it and never have an unintentional bang but there's really no reason to ever do it. Learning to shoot a revolver in DA all of the time will make you a much better shooter.

 

[Nushif]

I am really fond of bobbed and DAO snubbies, so my vote will usually be to do exactly that.

Service Revolvers are a totally different story, of course, but the Detective Special ... love that snubby.

 

[Guillermo]

Old Fuff said

I fully agree with Guillermo

THIS IS A RED LETTER DAY!!!!

 

[Oyeboten]

De-Cocking a Bobbed Hammer Revolver, is a forthright, rational maneuver, requiring only some basic understanding of the Mechanism, and, basic dexterity.

At worst, lacking these, all a person has to do is jam a finger end between Hammer and Frame, pull the Trigger, release the Trigger as the Hammer will then be pressing against one's finger end...and, then, with the Hammer barely 1/2 inch from the Frame, finger off of Trigger, gently pull your finger end 'out' from the Hammer's press, and all is well.


This of course lacks all dignity and style, or, would be it's own amusing style...but, if that is all one can manage, then at least it is something.


If a person is too uncoordinated or confused to do THAT, probably they should not be carrying anything anyway.

Or, a simple way to save face if lacking the ability to manage the maneuver, would be for a person having a Bobbed Hammer Revolver, to simply elect NOT to 'Cock' it, if they wish to avoid what for them would be the embarassment of then not being able to let the Hammer 'down' safely.


So...if it is a worry, just don't Cock the Double Action Revolver for putting it into the 'Single Action' mode!


How hard is that?


Lol...


Yeeeeesh!


"Practice"


There is nothing difficult about it.

 

[oldfool]

What I have always done is find another hammer for your model and bob it. Then you can always go back. I don't feel it's really necessary to render the gun DAO just because you bobbed the hammer, just make sure you understand that thumb cocking and decocking is no longer an option and don't even think of doing it. I know guys that can do it and never have an unintentional bang but there's really no reason to ever do it. Learning to shoot a revolver in DA all of the time will make you a much better shooter.

"Learning to shoot a revolver in DA all of the time will make you a much better shooter."

no, it won't
it will make you a better DA shooter

 

[The Lone Haranguer]

Other than resale value, I see no harm in at least blunting the sharp corners of the fishhook-shaped hammer.

 

[BCCL]

Uh, yes you can. Its right in front of me. I've had the gun for years, I think I know how it functions. Every other one I've had functions in exactly the same manner. If you don't know what you're talking about, please dont annoy the rest of us.

If it does, your gun is indeed damaged.

Guillermo & Old Fluff are 100% correct, no properly functioning Colt DA revolver should allow the cylinder to open while the hammer is cocked.

Just sat here and tried it with both a 1955 Agent and 1970 Python.

 

[Yo Mama]

If you don't know what you're talking about, please dont annoy the rest of us.

Let's learn from this experience. Best to be polite to the members that have been here a bit longer than yourself. That way you don't need to apologize,.....which you should.

 

[Guillermo]

Oye said

just don't Cock the Double Action Revolver for putting it into the 'Single Action' mode

And he is exactly right.

I am not a "bobbed" guy as I don't pocket carry. If I did have a de-spurred Colt I would not DAO it. (I might a Smith due to the simplicity thereof)

Hypocrite? No. Like Oyeboten said, I just wouldn't get it into single action mode. But I almost never shoot a snubbie single action and I am the only person that carries my guns.

So if you will allow me to amend my statement...MOST people should render their bobbed hammered revolvers DAO.

A fellow such as (for instance) Old Fuff is experienced and responsible enough to not do so.

Perhaps you will label that arrogance.

 

[ArmedBear]

I pocket carry a Centennial frame, but I also pocket carry a regular Model 60. Snagging has never once been an issue, and the Model 60 actually comes out of the Nemesis better than the Centennial's bigger rear frame.

I'm about as likely to bob that Model 60 as I am to cut my index finger off.

What I'm not sure of is the exact shape of the Colt's hammer, but if it came to my having to bob it to CCW it, I'd just get a J-frame Airweight and keep the increasingly-collectible Colt in the safe.

 

[Guillermo]

best to be polite to the members that have been here a bit longer than yourself.

Yo Mama,

You are correct that such was uncalled for and not HighRoad. I also applaud your efforts to keep the board what it was designed to be.

I did not take it personally because either he
A- doesn't know what he is talking about
B- is just stirring up "stuff" or
C- has a broken gun.

This means that he
A- needs to learn and flaming is not conducive to learning
B-not worth my time or
C- poor guy has to find a Colt gunsmith and broken guns suck

Besides, we all sometimes type stuff we shouldn't

 

[Fremmer]

Don't bob it. Keep the gun stock. Don't try to fix something that isn't broken.

Leave her be!

 

[Old Fuff]

fenriulven:

After re-reading the thread I find that we may be looking at two different issues here...

1. Can you open the cylinder (while the hammer is forward in the rebounded position) and then dry fire a Colt revolver? Yes you can.

2. Can you open the cylinder when the hammer is cocked? No, or at least you shouldn't be able to.

An exception to this were some early Colt hand-ejector revolvers made before 1908, because the sideplate and hand were on the right side of the frame, and they did not have a positive hammer block. However I don't see any relationship between these, and the ones under discussion.

It is obvious that if one wants to they can shoot a revolver with an intact hammer spur exclusively in the double-action mode, and some do. But his misses the core point. The main reason for bobbing a hammer is usually to insure that the spur won't snag on something when the gun is carried concealed under, or within some garment. Another reason (which may or may not be important, but should be considered) is that it will prevent any question following a justifiable shooting concerning the possibility that you unintentionally shot someone while covering them with a "hair trigger" cocked handgun.

Concerning the question of leaving the single-action feature in a bobed-hammer revolver. I am sure that Oyeboten and I will continue to "agree to disagree" about the practice, but I have been involved in several cases where individuals that didn't remove the single-action mode came to wish they had. They were all suposedly experienced and competent gun handlers.

 

[Old Fuff]

Concerning the Colt Detective Special and similar D-frame revolvers, I might mention that in past years several custom gunsmiths that specialized in Colt's would sometimes modify the lockwork to get a noticeable improvement in the double-action pull, but this modification required the elemination of the single-action option.

A common issue with all single-action / double-action revolvers is that when you have both, the double-action feature is considered to be optional, and is not optimal. There has been a lot of discussion lately about the much improved D.A. trigger pull in Ruger's new LCR line, and the reason is that it was designed from git-go to be a DAO.

 

[Rexster]

I have certainly de-cocked spur-less revolvers, in dry practice, for the sake of making sure I knew how. The support hand's thumb and index finger grasps the hammer from behind, so that the index fingertip and tip of the thumb are touching. Then, the firing hand pulls the trigger, the hammer is allowed to move forward a fraction of an inch, then the trigger finger release the trigger. Then, the support hand releases the hammer, which then stops in a safe position. This is actually, also, the safest way to de-cock a DA revolver that does have a spur.

Other than this dry exercise, I haven't cocked my two cock-able spur-less revolvers, both Rugers, which used to be made that way. Cocking them is not street-relevant, and I have revolvers with spurs if I want to hunt or plink in SA mode.

As for the original question, I would recommend that ONLY a gunsmith VERY experienced with the older Colts be allowed to touch the weapon. The dynamics of the Colts are different from Ruger and S&W revolvers. Anyone with a dremel can remove a spur.

Personally, I would not remove the spur of this now-historic weapon, but instead, use a holster that protected me from the hammer, and the weapon from my perspiration. My old, now-discontinued Eagle Industries IWB holsters did this; certainly something similar exists today.

Once the spur is gone, it is gone. Replacement parts for these Colts are not being made, and the parts now extant are becoming harder to find.