To line or not to line? That IS the question...

[BillTell]

So I've just posted these photos in another thread, and was thinking this is the group to ask. I picked up this .22 at auction. It's over 100 years old, and I love the way it looks. It shoots like a dream with the set trigger, and you barely know it's going off. My problem is that the barrel's so shot out, it can't group in a paper plate at 25 yards. So do I keep it as an antique? Or should I have the barrel re-lined and give it another life? What say you?

 

[LoonWulf]

To me, that rifle demands to be shot, and enjoyed. Id liner it.

 

[troy fairweather]

First clean the barrel as good as possible, use some copper brillow pad. Then liner it if that does not work.

 

[adcoch1]

To me, that rifle demands to be shot, and enjoyed. Id liner it.

Same. Liner it and go show it off...

 

[Demi-human]

I, too, would unapologetically reline that beautiful rifle and shoot the bore smooth, one more time.

It would still be an antique, and better yet, a still remarkably gorgeous and useful one.

 

[brasscollector]

I can see why it was shot out, that is one cool rifle.
Is there any indication as to the brand/model?

 

[Loyalist Dave]

My problem is that the barrel's so shot out, it can't group in a paper plate at 25 yards. So do I keep it as an antique? Or should I have the barrel re-lined and give it another life? What say you?

As others have noted, they would have it re-lined. Note that it will likely cost as much as what you paid at auction, (guessing you got a bargain.) or perhaps more. What brand is it and does it have high collector's value as-is, would be my only question. Otherwise, YES, reline it, and give the stock some TLC, and your grandkids will face the same dilemma in 2120.

LD

 

[ColtPythonElite]

Are you sure its "shot out" and not just leaded up?.

 

[Robbins290]

Thats my concearn colt, I would assume its leaded up pretty bad.

I would try a deep clean on the barrel first. With lead remover. then try it again. Might be the case.

 

[doubleh]

My thoughts also. If it were mine I would give it a scrubbing with choreboy and see what, if anything, comes out before considering relining. I don't know what a reline job would cost now but considering that rifle, it would be worth it to me if I couldn't do it myself.

 

[Legionnaire]

Beautiful rifle. Agree with others: get the lead out before doing anything else. If that doesn't solve the problem, by all means reline it.

 

[Ohen Cepel]

Maybe also try JB Bore paste when cleaning it. If that and the Chore Boy doesn't get it shooting better then look at the liner option.

 

[Swampman]

Make sure you use the pure copper Chore Boy pads and not a cheap knockoff made of copper plated steel.
https://www.amazon.com/Chore-Boy-Copper-Scouring-Pad-2ct/dp/B006K3XS5A

If a really thorough cleaning doesn't work, I'd reline it.

 

[Skylerbone]

You might be surprised what a simple pierce jag and solvent can drag out of the grooves. These were from a 10/22, the slivers were lead. I’d clean it, tend to the stock, and shoot it. Re-lining isn’t IMO a sensible choice for an inexpensive auction find unless you’re truly dedicated to the project.

 

[Skeptic13]

I would definitely make it shootable again. I never like buying guns and only looking at them. Sound like some solid advise above.

 

[Bfh_auto]

I agree with the hard core cleaning crowd.
If that doesn't fix it. Just remember "only accurate rifles are interesting". Mr Rifleman said so.

 

[MCFLYFYTER]

Did you try cleaning it? Seriously though, I'd reline it unless its value is high as is.

That just made me think of trying shot loads in one of mine that is shot out. Might get some decent range since there is zero rifling left.

 

[BillTell]

Gentlemen, I'm on the verge of being highly insulted! I spent DAYS cleaning, and brushing, swabbing and cleaning! I couldn't even FIT a .22 bore brush down the barrel in the beginning. I also have an old Outer's Foul Out system that I hooked up to the gun and ran several deep cleans on. Yes, I did clean it, as much as I could, and it appears that the lands and grooves are just faded lines in the barrel. I have two other threads on here gathering info on this gun. The only thing I can tell you for sure, is that it has the maker Paul Erdelt's name on it. He had a shop in Neustadt Germany from the late 1800's to about 1946. I paid $150 including the auction fees, and the actual firing of the gun is sweet, and buttery. It just can't hit where it's aimed.

 

[BillTell]

 

[Skylerbone]

No need to feel insulted when no offense was meant. If cleaning has not procured better accuracy then a careful crown inspection follows, then a very controlled, methodical testing of ammo is next.

My ammo testing begins with a good clean barrel using Bore Shine (not paste), then ~2 rounds per inch of barrel to wax it, then groups, then cleaning and repeating. Rimfires can be notoriously picky with ammo.

 

[shoobe01]

I am not sure "barely there rifling" is necessarily a bad sign. A lot of .22 rifling is very subtle, so without seeing clearly or knowing your background (no insult intended!) I am not sure that's necessarily shot out.

Agree with Skyler, that it may need:
1) More or specific inspection, fixing, cleaning. Borescopes are nice to use, but you can do a lot with eyes and light.

• Is the chamber good, both clean and un-marked?
• How's the breechface? Rimfire especially can get beat up from dry fire, indifferent assembly, etc. and that can mess with headspace and that can cause accuracy issues.
• As mentioned, how's the crown?
• If you have a chrono, do that. If you are so worn accuracy is off, you'll often (not always) start to get blowby, and if bad enough will have measurable loss of velocity, which is a good way to confirm
• (You can also gauge it in various ways, probably not worth finding someone with those tools though)

2) And/or different ammo. Even new guns often are very picky, won't run or won't shoot with some ammo, are all good with another. Even seen quite worn guns go from "this is worn out" to the first choice for squirrels with just different ammo. Go to the store get one box of everything they have is the cheap way. Or I bet others can chime in for what are the current go-to best rimfire ammo to try. I am very new-rimfire out of date.

Anyone know pre-war German rimfire details, like if they had weird twist rates and some specific ammo will likely work better?

 

[cdb1]

Recrown the barrel. If that doesn’t work then line it.

I’m on the verge of being insulted because in your original post not a word was said about all the barrel cleaning you did.

 

[NIGHTLORD40K]

Could it be chambered for .22 Long? In which case, the bullet could be engaging the rifling before the bolt is closed over a LR case. On a Schutzen rifle that would be a good thing, but perhaps enough to mangle the bullet and cause instability on that one......

Just a thought. Its a gorgeous little plinker.

 

[LoonWulf]

Recrown the barrel. If that doesn’t work then line it.

I’m on the verge of being insulted because in your original post not a word was said about all the barrel cleaning you did.

wait, wait, wait.....you people CLEAN your .22s?

 

[BillTell]

Okay, just kidding about being "on the verge"... after 32 years on the FD, I've been insulted by the best... As I was up writing til after 2am this morning, I didn't even THINK about the crown. The CROWN! What crown? When Mario Jr. lets the gun shops open again, I'll have this re-crowned and take it from there. Right now there's a worn end on the tip of my gun. And this rifle needs to be re-crowned, too. Hopefully, that's the problem. We'll see what happens.