"Tombstone" (Director's Cut DVD)

[Shane]

Just seen it for the first time last night (Directors Cut version on DVD). Is this movie somewhat historically accurate, or is it mostly hogwash? I don't know, which is why I'm asking.

The acting was pretty good, I was impressed by the actor that played Virgil Earp, and also by the actor that played Doc Holliday. Kurt Russell for some reason did not "feel" or have the look of Wyatt to me though--although he did an okay to decent job IMO.


I was NOT impressed by the way the scenes jumped around and were so choppy. It seemed to me that they rushed in some development areas.

It was nice to see some nice examples of Old West guns though, those ivory gripped pistols Doc had were nice on the eyes. That long barrelled pistol Wyatt carried looked like it would make a good club after the bullets were gone.

I think this movie was slightly above average (2.5 stars), but far from being good. Anyone wish to comment on their opinion of "Tombstone"?

 

[BamBam]

While not a great movie, I did enjoy it.
Val Kilmer Was Doc Holliday....one of his best roles.

To see Kurt Russel in a good gun movie, check out 3000 Miles To Graceland.

 

[4v50 Gary]

Love the tin cup scene with Val Kilmer. I can't do that twirling with a gun yet alone a tin cup. I wonder how many band-aids he earned?

 

[Shane]

^That tin cup scene was really well done.

 

[Devonai]

Don't forget that the "heroes" of this movie banned firearms within town limits.

 

[GW]

It was a great movie and the best western of the last 20 years though I admit there haven't been that many
Val Kilmer was great as Doc Holliday and Kurt Russel is always worth watching, though he should do more comedy
the shootout at the OK Corral is great and the scene where Wyatt cracks the cowboy over the head with his own pistol is a laugh.
Lastly, is there a better showdown than Doc Holliday and Johnny Ringo?

"Why Johnny, you look like someone walked over your grave..."

 

[ke6guj]

Tombstone's one of those movie you can watch anytime, and can even catch in the middle of the showing and watch the rest without a problem. Few movies have that ability.

Doc Holliday: I'm your huckleberry.

 

[Nando Aqui]

I believe Shane's question still stands, and I 'm curious as well:

Is this movie somewhat historically accurate, or is it mostly hogwash?

Alex

 

[AR-15Nutt]

Kevin Costners version was much better & more historicly accurate, just like the "Reagan" movie CBS tried to sell, none will ever portray 100% true history, most of history was boring according to Holyweed, so they always enhance it beyond truth......

 

[Old Fuff]

"Tombstone" was fun entertainment, but not particularly accurate from an historical point of view. Movies seldom are.

If anyone is interested, after the "street fight" a coroner’s inquest was held. Witnesses gave testimony and what they said was recorded in longhand. Later, the Earp’s and Holliday were charged with murder. A preliminary hearing was held to see if they should be bound over for trial. This was an extensive hearing that took up almost four weeks. Again the proceedings were written down by a court reporter. Something like 30 people testified, including some of the principals. A few of the firearms were identified as to probable, if not exact, make and model. Some serial numbers are listed.

During the 1930’s these documents were discovered and the handwritten records were copied with a typewriter. Some of the originals remain in the courthouse annex in Bisbee, Arizona. Photocopies can be obtained for a small fee.

In the early 1980’s the typed transcripts were found by a researcher/author who had them published verbatim with footnoted annotations. The only changes that were made consisted of correcting some spelling or punctuation errors. Keep in mind that most of this was eyewitness testimony taken down a few hours or weeks after the fight, not some old-timer’s recollections given out a half-century later. It’s little known, but in the 1930’s when western book writers’ started asking questions the people left in Tombstone (including old-timers) didn’t even pick out the correct site where the fight happened.

The book is not easy too read in some places. When the court reporters got rushed they wrote down the answers but left out the questions! Even so, you can figure out what the question probably was if you know the answer.

For those that are interested, the book’s title is “The O.K. Corral Inquest†by Alford E. Turner. The publisher is, (or at least was) in College Station, TX. It’s available in hardcover or paperback.

 

[12-34hom]

Val Kilmer's portrail if Doc Holliday was some of the best acting to come out of Hollywood since John Ford was making westerns.

12-34hom.

 

[valnar]

I agree with Val Kilmer. His best role since Real Genius, an entirely different kind of film!

-Robert

 

[mtnbkr]

Don't forget that the "heroes" of this movie banned firearms within town limits.

From what I've read and heard, this was pretty common in those days. Doesn't make it right, but does make it understandable...

Chris

 

[Kinsman]

So how is the Director's Cut different from the copy I have?
I enjoyed the movie even though it's maybe not the most accurate...but that's Hollyweird. The characters were great.

How about the scene inside the Oriental when Wyatt confronts Johnny Tyler? Tyler: "Well for a man who don't go heeled you run yer mouth kinda reckless, don't ye?" "No need of goin' heeled just to get a bulge on a tub like you...(and later) "go ahead, skin that smoke-wagon and see what happens."

Some cool scenes....so do I need to rush out and buy the director's cut, or whut?

 

[Ed Straker]

The 2 DVD set I have has some good behind-the-scenes stuff about how hard they tried to get the clothing and scenery right. If I remember correctly, the actual gunfight was scripted from a contemporary newspaper account, but I may be wrong. In fact, I think a copy of that paper, the Tombstone Epitaph maybe, was included with the DVD. It's in storage on the other side of town, I'll have to look for it next time I go over there.

 

[jhisaac1]

Sam Elliot played Virgil Earp. I've enjoyed him in everything I've seen him in and he makes a fantastic cowboy.

jhisaac1

 

[WonderNine]

Very historically innaccurate and yet at the same time a very good very entertaining movie.

You know that scene where Wyatt Earp cracks Curly Bill over the head with his pistol? Never happened. In fact Wyatt Earp wasn't even there.

Or where Ike Clanton runs away from the gunfight at O.K. That didn't happen either. In fact he tried to have the Earps arrested after the gunfight on murder charges. And Ike Clanton was not the unwashed looking bug feast that he's protrayed as in the movies, in fact he often dressed as "toney" as Doc Holliday. There is no real hard evidence either that either Ike OR Doc Holliday had any role in the stagecoach murder. There is no real evidence either that Ike Clanton was shot and killed "in commision of a robbery" as noted at the end. There are many who say that Wyatt Earp only went back to law enforcement to promote his own business interests.

And we only see two Earp brothers other than Wyatt. Where are the others? And we never see Bat Masterson or any of the other characters.

The death of Johnny Ringo is a mystery as he was found sitting against the oak tree with a bullet in his head and his pistol belt on upside down. Kind of a Hollywood ending in having him shot in a duel with Holliday.

You know that guy that what's his name played. John Tyler? Doc Holliday actually killed him in a bar brawl.

That scene at the beginning where Doc Holliday knifes that guy Ed Bailey? Doc Holliday slashed his guts out right there at the table. He almost was hung over the incident as Ed Bailey was a popular guy in town.

 

[WonderNine]

One more thing I forgot to add. You know that book that Wyatt gave Doc Holliday at the end? Wyatt Earp never wrote this book and there was no such book at all.

There are alot of other innaccuracies, but I think that's enough for now...

Boy, I know how to ruin a good movie for you all don't I?

 

[Cosmoline]

Re. accuracy, it's a BIG improvement over "My Daring Clemintine," which featured the Earps as cattle drovers and turned the OK shootout into a fifteen-minute long climactic gunfight. But it still gets a lot wrong and leaves out a lot. For one the, the politics are absent. The Earps were GOP through and through, while their foes were Democrats. In those days that could lead to more than just an exchange of insults. The "cowboy" gang gets overplayed, and is expanded to include folks such as Ringo who probably weren't gunfighters at all. While I love Kilmer's performance, the real life Doc was more violent and les sophisiticated. He was involved in several drunken brawls (as described above) and IIRC he even bit the ear off bar owner Bill Choice, who in the film is shown as an Earp ally.

 

[WonderNine]

The "cowboy" gang gets overplayed, and is expanded to include folks such as Ringo who probably weren't gunfighters at all. While I love Kilmer's performance, the real life Doc was more violent and les sophisiticated. He was involved in several drunken brawls (as described above) and IIRC he even bit the ear off bar owner Bill Choice, who in the film is shown as an Earp ally.

John Ringo was certainly a gunfighter and had a reputation as such. He committed many murders and robberies during his lifetime. His childhood was pretty crappy. One event that sticks out was him witnessing his father accidently blow his own head off with a shotgun while stepping out of a wagon.

Bill Choice? I assume you're talking about Milt Joyce owner of The Oriental? I didn't know that D.H. did a Mike Tyson on him. What's your source on this? Not doubting you at all, I had just never heard that before.

 

[WonderNine]

And I just wanted to ad that from most historical accounts Johnny Ringo was very afraid of Doc Holliday, more so than portrayed in "Tombstone" anyways. One that comes to mind is of where Holliday in a rage walked up and down the streets of Tombstone with a "coach gun" challenging Ringo to come out and fight him of which Ringo never did.

 

[Cosmoline]

My books are packed up, but the article I remember reading on Ringo was called "The Greatest Gunfighter Who Never Was," and IIRC argued that there was no evidence Ringo ever killed anyone, though it was claimed he may have shot Morgan Earp. He was never in charge of the gang.

I have a clear memory of reading that Holliday and Joyce got in a brawl and that Joyce brought charges. I also remember the allegation of biting, though he may or may not have pulled a Tyson. Anyone have a bio of Holliday nearby? Maybe I'm smoking something here.

 

[Cosmoline]

Here's a bit on the Joyce/Holliday fight. No Tyson, apparently:

....Later Holliday got into an argument with Milt Joyce, one of the proprietors of the Oriental. Joyce physically threw Holliday out of the Saloon. Doc returned and asked for his pistol. Joyce refused and Holliday left the building. In a short time he returned with a "self-cocker" (a double action revolver) and approached Joyce, who leaped at Holliday. Doc fired two wild shots; one hitting Joyce in the hand, the other striking the bartender in the toe. Joyce pounced on Holliday and slammed a pistol to his head several times, before being pulled off of Holliday by bystanders. The event was reported by the Nugget and the Epitaph. On October 12, 1880, the Nugget commented:

"Sunday night a disturbance in the Oriental Saloon between John Tyler and Doc Holliday, two well known sports, and a scene of bloodshed was immenient. Mutual friends, however, separated and disarmed them both, and Tyler went away, Holliday remaining in the saloon. M. E. Joyce, one of the proprietors, remonstrated with Holliday about creating a disturbance in the saloon and the conversation resulted with Holliday being bodily fired out by Joyce. The former came in and demanded his pistol from behind the bar, where it had been placed by the officer who disarmed him. It was not given him and he went out, but in a short time returned and walked toward Joyce, who was just coming from behind the bar, and with a remark that wouldn't look well in print, turned loose with a self-cocker. Joyce was not more than ten feet away and jumped for his assailant and struck him over the head with a six-shooter, fellling him to the floor and lighting on top of him. Officers White and Bennett were near at hand and separated them, taking the pistol from each. Just how many shots were fired none present seem able to tell but in casting up accounts Joyce was found to be shot through the hand, his partner Mr. Parker, who was behind the bar, shot through the big toe of the left foot, and Holliday with a blow of the pistol in Joyce's hands. Gus Williams, barkepper, was accused or [sic] firing a shot in the melee but in appearace [sic] in court yesterday morning no complaint appeared against him and the charge was dismissed. All parties directly implicated are still in bed and no direct arrests have been made, although a complaint has been entered against Holliday and he will be brought before Justice Reilly as soon as he is able to appear, probably to-day".

----

Not exactly the same Holliday we're shown in "Tombstone"!

 

[Cosmoline]

Looking at all these Holliday links, I'd have been afraid of him! He was a real killer--perhaps much more of a killer than any of the cowboys who are painted as the bad guys in the Sillywood version.

 

[Robert Farrar]

A Great (but fun) Book

Hola Gents,
Nab a copy of 'I Married Wyatt Earp' by Josephine Sarah Marcus Earp.
All may not be the truth, but a great reading regarding Earp & "The Old West"

Bob