NevadaDep said: I fail to see how requiring minimal training is infringing on anybody rights . . . . I am not advocating the restriction/denial of anybody RKBA only minimal mandatory training at the government’s expense.
Really?
So far you've suggested:
A mandatory 4 hour course just to purchase a gun.
To carry it I'd have to take an ADVANCED, not basic, but ADVANCED carry course.
Bi-annual quals.
NCIC checks Bi-annually.
Let's talk about all that for a moment . . .
First, all those suggestions . . . those are the antithesis of minimum. How does it infringe on someone's rights and ability to exercise them? Well, let's look at what it would actually take to satisfy your criteria.
Let's say I am a new husband and father, I now have some means as a man with a decent job, and I wanted to buy my first gun. And eventually, I'd like to carry it to protect my lovely family.
I'd have to find 4 hours to set aside just to buy the gun. Hmmm . . . Can't do that during an evening, so either there goes a Saturday, or I've got to take time off work. Maryland instituted one of these kinda programs. I suggest, rather than listen to a hypothetical story, investigate for yourself what headaches that's caused gun buyers in the Free State.
An Advanced course. Not basic, not intermediate, but
advanced. Advanced courses almost universally have pre-requisites, being successful completion of that basic and intermediate class. Advanced classes are generally in excess of 24 hours of instruction, but you can find a rare one that runs only 24.
Basic classes run anywhere from 10 -20 hours; Intermediate classes from 16 - 30 hours. You might get a 10 hour day for training in the extended daylight of summer, or on an indoor range. So we're talking a minimum of 50 hours of training for the permit, but more than likely it'll be closer to 70. This excludes that 4 hour class I took just to buy that gun. Over a week and a half best estimate, but closer to two full weeks of training. My wife isn't going to be happy. Neither my wife, nor my employer will like it much if I try to take the time off during the week - there goes the vacation.
The cost for this cirriculum of classes will run upwards of $1500 for an iternant trainer that will come to me. If I have to go to a "resort" like Gunsite, this will cost several thousand dollars. And the taxpayer should foot this bill . . . . I can see that now on t.v. "Channel 7 investigates Your Money . . . <insert typical attention grabbing comment here>"
The cost for the hotel and food while I'm gone for 2 weeks will run in the neighborhood of $1200, hopefully I can drive and don't need to fly. Better yet, maybe I can find a guy to come to my range to teach me. Then all I have to pay for is ammo. YIPPIE!!! Uh, yeah. Figure on 3-4,000 rounds of ammo for the beginner, intermediate and advanced classes from most instructors.
This is really starting to add up. My wife is giving me grief, and I'm having a hard time coming up with all this cash. But luckily the taxpayer hasn't gotten too upset at all this yet, and I got my instruction paid for. All I need is money for about 4,000 rounds of ammo, say $600. I found a guy to come to me, and that's awesome, because I can't get any more time off work to go drive someplace. I won't have vacation time this year, and my wife is really mad over that, too. But, its for her and the kids . . . right?
Of course this is an advanced class, and its tough, but with a lot of help and luck I pass. Now I just have to go do these quals every six months and I'm good. Of course, they have to be on a certified range, with certified personnel. Wow, that wait list is long. Not many ranges, not many people. But I manage to squeek in one afternoon to do it. Let's hope I don't fail a qualification, because my wife would kill me if I had to take any more time off for training.
And with hundreds of thousands of people trying to get permits in my state, the taxpayer won't foot the bill for that training anymore . . . the ranges where I have to qual on are getting harder to get into, and that department as well is getting looked at for how much its costing to oversee and license all the ranges.
Has this started to look like it interferes with getting that permit yet? Of course, we can "dumb down" these classes, shorter them, and in the end have what places like Texas and Utah now have. But that's not what you want, because you're demanding more than basic knowledge. You're demanding a high level off proficiency. Why, I don't know . . . Permit holders don't have a duty to act.
And you still didn't answer Soybomb's question. Why is all this necessary? Have people with carry permits, while carrying their gun, caused so much carnage as too suggest such an onerous permitting system is required to stop all the bloodshed?
I don't think you're a leftist . . . not at all. I think you're a government worker who doesn't understand the differences between a state needing to ensure its armed officers are proficient, and a citizen who just needs to ensure he just doesn't do something stupid. Folks whose job is it to be proficient are expected to do this kind of training. This is unreasonable and unjustified to expect for each and every armed citizen.
Funny……80 people voted for additional training. Why am I the only one arguing this point?
