Training and Practicing Close Quarter/Firearm Retention From Home

[AOK]

I have had some training on body positioning and footowork, however verbalization is new to me. Can you guys please elaborate a little more or provide some examples they teach you when you guys refer this this tactic? Is this basically what some refer to as verbal judo or is that two totally different things?

 

[Paul Gomez]

Guys,

One thing that I see getting mentioned that is a little off is the idea that their are always 2 Bad Guys in the 2 on 1 scenarios. There are 2 Unknown Contacts whom may have hostile intent. It is through correct positioning and Managing the Unknown Contacts that the scenarios develop. The goal is to inculcate MUC skills to put you in a better position and the, potential, bad guys in such a position of disadvantage that the situation does not devolve.

As has been mentioned, if you have the skills to deal with a worst-case, close range affair, everything else becomes easier to deal with.

 

[AOK]

Guys,

One thing that I see getting mentioned that is a little off is the idea that their are always 2 Bad Guys in the 2 on 1 scenarios. There are 2 Unknown Contacts whom may have hostile intent. It is through correct positioning and Managing the Unknown Contacts that the scenarios develop. The goal is to inculcate MUC skills to put you in a better position and the, potential, bad guys in such a position of disadvantage that the situation does not devolve.

As has been mentioned, if you have the skills to deal with a worst-case, close range affair, everything else becomes easier to deal with.

Fair point and it seems as though that is something students work on in the SN class being discussed by cowict and others.

I can certainly admit this is an area of training I sorely lack. All my firearms, KM, and other classes I've attend(ed) never really cover the point between first inital contact be it physical or verbal. All my training works on having already determined that the individual(s) are a threat and it's just a matter of if this is enough of a threat to escalate to bringing my gun into the equation.

For example, our two on one scenarios in Krav vary in the position we are in such as being surrounded, one guy on top of us and another yelling and trying to send kicks into me, in a choke hold with another assailant approaching, etc. The one thing that never changes is they are both ALWAYS threats. The more discussing it and reading others experiences I can see how that can be a dangerous mindset to be in.

 

[Paul Gomez]

AOK,

I was referring to the 2 on 1 evolutions in Craig's classes. They start with 2 Unknown Contacts. You do not know whether either, or both, or neither, have hostile intent at the onset.

Sorry for the confusion.

 

[AOK]

AOK,

I was referring to the 2 on 1 evolutions in Craig's classes. They start with 2 Unknown Contacts. You do not know whether either, or both, or neither, have hostile intent at the onset.

Sorry for the confusion.

No confusion on my part. You explained it fine, more likely my response was not clear.

I'm just saying in all of my training there is no assessing intent. The training I have been a part of already has determined they have holstile intent which obviously not how life really works.

 

[conw]

One thing that I see getting mentioned that is a little off is the idea that their are always 2 Bad Guys in the 2 on 1 scenarios. There are 2 Unknown Contacts whom may have hostile intent. It is through correct positioning and Managing the Unknown Contacts that the scenarios develop. The goal is to inculcate MUC skills to put you in a better position and the, potential, bad guys in such a position of disadvantage that the situation does not devolve.

Good distinction Paul, which I tried to make in my post but probably got diluted by my other points.

A corollary to that point, both in real life and in Southnarc's classes, is that even if 2 BGs do have hostile intent, you can really make a difference using these skills. It is not an either or thing where you use verbal skills if they're not BGs, and use lethal force if they are.

If it gets to the point where you have your hand on your gun (the "1 count" of the drawstroke) in the holster, and both unknowns lined up in a straight line in front of you (rather than them flanking you), chances are that even if they are hostile, they won't approach.

Of course depending on the intent of the "unknowns" that may not be an appropriate strategy, but my point is that you'd be surprised how useful positional and verbal skills ("MUC") are, even with both unknowns ARE BGs.

 

[Deaf Smith]

Guys,

I've been in SN's and Paul's ECQC class where we had two unknown contacts. You will find it very easy to forget and only concentrate on the guy in front while the other guy sort of walks BEHIND you (and takes you down!) Distracting you is what they do. Can be either one that distracts you and the other one then rushes in.

It takes much effort to get away from that bad habit.

Deaf

 

[Fred Fuller]

AOK,

See the AAR at http://www.urbancombatives.com/sn.htm . Much of this (including verbalization) is included there, with pictures and diagrams of some aspects of the training. But as usual, nothing beats hands on training...

 

[AOK]

AOK,

See the AAR at http://www.urbancombatives.com/sn.htm . Much of this (including verbalization) is included there, with pictures and diagrams of some aspects of the training. But as usual, nothing beats hands on training...

Thank you!

 

[conw]

A lot has changed since 06. He no longer teaches backhand jabs or yoke blows to my knowledge and the grappling has become more prominent for opening up weapon access.

Then again the UK classes are more unarmed- and less weapons-based for obvious reasons.