Training For Carjackings

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Crag Douglas (Southnarc) does a lot of stuff in/around vehicles. I'm sure some of his scenarios could be considered carjacking, though most I've seen videos of involved the attacker being someone like a hitchhiker, already in the vehicle.

The principles most relevant are going to be aware and consciously defensive driving: avoiding traps and bottlenecks where such predators best operate. And then how to use your vehicle as a weapon if need be. The shooting problem itself isn't necessarily terribly difficult or complex, if it comes to firing shots.
 
they will flee when they see your gun. They have nothing to gain by getting involved in a gun fight. Doing so would mean that they don't get your car or your money. Stay alert, keep the gun under your thigh or tucked in your waistband in front,under a tails out shirt, as you drive. The harness severely reduces comfort/access to other means of carry. Attaching a holster to the car or leaving it in the center console is likely to result in your forgetting to take it with you and having it stolen. Try not to fire from inside of the car, the blast is almost certain to really mess up your hearing.
 
Cars, let's see:

For real carjacking, other than keeping your doors locked at all times, the most important skill to learn is how to drive your car into a telephone pole and then get out and run ....


For other car-centric defensive techniques, learn:

How to use your car to move roadblocking cars out of the way (and why professionals drive Suburbans),

Why you roll down your windows when you think you might have rounds fired at you (to have glass plus door metal between you and a shooter outside of your own car, which is a pretty good barrier to most calibers),

and

How to drive backwards quickly.


All goodies learned at a "certain school" long ago.

I still drive a Suburban.


Willie

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Here in KC MO, there are carjackings all the time, Lock your doors? Good Idea in general, but they usually get you as you get in. If it is in traffic, they will approach quickly, suddenly appear at your window with gun pointed at your or your loved ones head and be
screaming "GET OUT or I WILL KILL YOU! And they will. Shoot, people get killed over parking spaces around here.

In this situation, you had better get out and give them your car. Best tactic is to be vigilant on keeping abreast of your surroundings...even then, there is no car worth getting killed over. Weigh this against the fact that many of these crazies, will kill you anyway. I have seen one case where the victim
lady, complied, but couldnt get her child out in time, his clothing caught in the door, and was dragged to his death in a high speed get away.

If I do get the drop on them, no warning, I would blow their head off without hesitation. Because of the frequency of car jackings and home invasions, victims here usually face no charges.

I never leave my, or my loved ones life to the good nature of someone robbing me at gun point.

Russellc
 
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You can't possibly move your car fast enough to keep him from getting off several good shots at you before you can be moving enough to effect his aim. That is, if he's right at your side window. I doubt that any are dumb enough to be in front of your car, up close! :) This "moving the car to make him miss" bs would take a 6 second, 1/4 mile "rail" to have a prayer for it to work. He can react, decide and fire an aimed in pistol in 1/2 second, if he's "wired up" for you to give him trouble. You would still be spinning your tires,
 
Why you roll down your windows when you think you might have rounds fired at you (to have glass plus door metal between you and a shooter outside of your own car, which is a pretty good barrier to most calibers),

That's a nifty little tidbit, man. Filing that one away in my old gray matter.

I really want to get out and get some more training this year. I'm teaching classes now, just introductory and entry level stuff. But I want to gradually build up the materials, knowledge, and skill.
 
For what it's worth, when I was an LEO I was taught if we were expecting incoming rounds we should roll all our windows DOWN, since even a miss could shower you with glass and blind you.

Not saying which is right, just another point of view.


Larry
 
^^ Correct technique, wrong rationale.

The key is to put as much ballistic protection between you and the goblins as possible. Basically a laminate of metal/glass/interior panel is darned tough to defeat even for rifle projectiles in the 5.56mm class. Lower your body so you're only barely peering over the wheel and you are fairly well protected from the side as well as front and rear aspects.

If I'm out of my car and a carjacker says "your car or your life" my answer will be "it needs an oil change so help yourself...". At this point you've already lost the fight and it's best to retreat and lick your wounds. Bottom line: Your SA was low, and you lost.

If they get in with me, they best fasten their belt, because within the next ten seconds they are gonna be looking a telephone pole square in the face. 40 MPH is about right to kill or incapacitate someone not restrained while not permanently damaging someone who's well belted in. Disable your passenger side airbag too for more certain result. Many cars permit this for child seat use.



Trent, if you want to have some fun, grab a few car doors from your local junkyard and shoot
'em with the glass down and check penetration. Then break out the remaining glass and repeat with the glass removed. The difference is profound. Tempered car safety glass is some tough stuff...





Willie

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I would start with trying to avoid carjackings in the first place.

Some lessons learned from actual events in our area in the past couple or three years:
  • Do not sit in your car in a parking lot making calls, texting, or eating.
  • Stay off the phone and do not use ear buds when putting stuff or little people into your car.
  • If something doesn't seem right, go back into the store immediately.
  • Look around the lot before parking and getting out of your car.

I'm sure folks can come up with some other suggestions.
 
^^ This.

The most dangerous time is when you are approaching your car to get in. Distracted with keys, overloaded with bags, etc. It's easy to let down your guard and be in White. Don't let this happen.

Cases in point: Twice in the last week my significant other and myself have been "surprised" by someone way too close, way too fast, in parking lots after shopping. Both times these were panhandlers, one a well dressed young woman asking for a dollar, and the second time a less well dressed man asking for the same thing. Their MO is to be at a car about five cars away from their mark, who they are watching approach, and then to intercept the mark, behaving as if they have just left their own car and are walking to the store just like anyone else. They walk past the rear of the parked car, turn into the lane, and panhandle. If you have the door open you cannot retreat past it if it's almost touching the car next to you, and they are standing blocking your exit towards them. When boxed in the tunnel like between two cars you are absolutely vulnerable. The real world solution each time was me putting left hand out, palm forward, and stating loudly "NO" while making eye contact and preparing to present arms. Keep your right hand free at all times.


Now:

In the cases above, I had seen and identified the goblins 50 feet away and had them under watch, and was in Orange as they approached. I let them come close for two reasons: (1) they might just have been shopping, and in case they were not to (2) have a teaching moment for my significant other, who's just begun to carry. Question to her post-contact: "When did you see them?" Answer: "Uhh... when they asked for money". "Where did they come from" .. "I don't know, they just appeared from noplace". Yup: Condition White. That's WAY too late.

I must confess that I was "less diligent" with the approach of the well dressed young woman. She looked just like any other well dressed affluent college kid walking into the mall. In the end she was just a panhandler, not a carjacker, but the point should be taken: Camouflage works. The shaggy haired "flannel shirt in the desert sun" male was quickly ID'd as not fitting the scene, but she blended in far better.

One lesson to take away is to park much further out in the parking lot, where you have more freedom to maneuver, more opportunity to see and avoid, and where others aren't casually "just walking past you on their own way into the store". Park if possible where you can leave a space (at least) between your car and the next one over. If there aren't any cars parked out past you, there's no reason for anyone to be approaching you. Remember that this tactic generally requires that they walk TOWARDS the store from cars further out in the lot, and they will not hesitate to approach even if you are very close to the store, with many other people present. Nobody else walking by sees a thing, as they are shielded from view by a car on two sides, and open door on one side, and their own body on the 4th side of the box. Keep that box open on at least two sides. If they need to work for it, they usually don't bother. And you'll get more exercise walking to the store as a bonus.

If you can't park out in the lot, always back into your parking spot. At the very least you can block an approach from the most common approach angle with your door, and if you need to "dive and drive" you are in a better tactical spot to do so. As a bonus you'll be less likely to back into Grandma as she walks behind your car on her own way into the store.


Willie

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Thanks for the responses! Summarizing:

Avoid condition white any time you're driving, parking, navigating parking lots, etc.
Park away from other vehicles to preserve freedom of maneuver.
While driving, be careful to preserve freedom of maneuver.
Be prepared to use your vehicle as a weapon if necessary.
Give any carjacker that actually enters your vehicle the roller-coaster ride of this life.
Willie Sutton, the idea of synergy of door metal and side window glass was something I hadn't heard of before. Do you know if anybody has posted results of testing of this combination anywhere on the web?

These are all great suggestions and comments.


This is what has me most concerned, though: We are extremely vulnerable when we stop the car, turn it off, and get ready to get out, as well as just after we get in our vehicle and are getting ready to drive away. During those moments, even with the doors locked, we're immobile, defenseless targets. Our vehicles provide no or very limited hard cover (see http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/buickot3.htm, http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/buickot4.htm, http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/buickot2.htm, and http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/buickot1.htm) our ability to see around us is very limited, and we're literally tied in place so that we can't move away quickly from a threat. In this moment our biggest weapon (the vehicle) isn't available and we lose any tactical initiative that we might have once had.

Any suggestions to address these vulnerable moments?
 
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Carry your key ring on a locking carabiner that's big enough to put your hand though so that you have a sort of "brass knuckle" and have your hand in it, in your pocket as you go to or from your car or carry a j-frame revolver in your weak side pocket and have you hand on it.
 
I once shot at an old Toyota, 30 years ago, 38 Hydroshoks went thru the door, from 5 ft away, from a snubbie. so did .22's, from a 5" barrel. No glass in the door, but when I shot at the glass(up position) both rds went on out the other side glass. You need angles, like 45 degrees, before glass or body metal offer any serious degree of protection from 9mm ball.
 
"Willie Sutton, the idea of synergy of door metal and side window glass was something I hadn't heard of before. Do you know if anybody has posted results of testing of this combination anywhere on the web?"

The last time I saw test results they were published in Soldier of Fortune in about 1979 or so. Really... it's been that long. I think that Kokalis did the story but you would need to research it. The bottom line was that with a full sized american sedan of the period, you were 'almost safe" from 5.56mm at close range. In the few cases where we had "interesting encounters" in traffic when I worked as a contractor down south in the 80's we routinely kept the windows down for this reason as well as the ability to return fire if needed. The poisition of greatest safety in the car is laying down on the floor, on top of the driveline of the engine (front engine, rear wheel drive), with windows down. That's works until someone tosses a frag into the car. Then you'll wish you had kept your windows up.

Junk car doors from a scrapyard and a day on the range would be fun for documenting this.




Willie

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I have taken VCAST from Craig and can't recommend it strongly enough. It's excellent and is totally armed-civilian oriented. In fact I wish I could take it again but it is offered a bit more rarely.

I will venture to say, paraphrasing, that the main thing taught is that there is a decision tree once a violent situation begins unfolding.

Use car to escape or as a weapon
Fight out of (eg shooting) or inside (eg h2h) car that isn't moving
Exit or enter car to continue fight or escape on foot

All of this gets fairly complex but from a decisional level there is a hierarchy (best priority is probably using car to escape if able), and it is up to you to use your training to decide the proper decision for the exact circumstances and use proper tactics to execute that decision. Some of the tactics taught are much more reactive involving a response to a rear end collision (actual, not simulated) or gunfire coming into the vehicle unexpectedly.

In terms of physical skills and tactics covered this includes shooting into or out of the car, rapidly bussing or debussing as context changes, e&e using car or on foot, hand to hand with weapons in play in or around cars, and using the car as a weapon or to create room.
 
Carjackings were prevalent in Texas till the Concealed carry law went into effect and the first two or three perps got fed some hot lead. Now, carjackings are very rare in these parts. I noticed the article you referenced was from California. Figures.
 
I tried a Mini14 from 10 ft, at the windshield of a Toyota, Celica I think, it was 30+ years ago, at a nice 90 degree angle (nearly vertical front windshield) 55 gr ball. 2 rds, side by side about 3" apart, went right thru the "head" of the silhouette in the front seat, and right out the back window, no problems that I could see. Next I tried it thru the trunk, aiming at the "driver". It put frags into the back of the front seat, but none penetrated. I suspect that with 1 in 9" rifling and 62 gr steel capped ball, penetration would be adequate, but not awesome. I carry softpoints in the 223. The sks has steel cored ball in it,with 150 gr Corbons in one of the 2 strippers that are rubber banded to the stock.

No, the car is not the best option. It's much too slow, unless you see them coming when they are over 30 ft away (not yet in full charge) and you have a clear exit (which only an idiot would let you have). It just takes too long to get the car moving fast enough, and anyone with any sense is going to "jump" you when you are up against other traffic, etc. So using the car to escape is not a realistic option. You will be shot many times as you try it. If you rush thru an "open" intersection, the odds are that you will get t-boned by another car, and you will kill some innocent people, just because you are too inept with your pistol and too cowardly to fight.

Instead, get out of the "far-side' of the car, use it for cover, and they'll flee when they see your pistol/hear you fire it. If your world was "brown" enough to let them be right beside you, you'll have to do as they say, and pray that you'll have the chance to draw the gun that should be under your shirt, up front, IWB, as you drive.
 
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I attended an Airsoft based class in Rock Hill, SC recently. One of the scenarios was pulling up to a stop sign as a pedestrian crossed in front of you. A common scenario played out dozens of times each week. What we learned from this scenario is;

  • If it really is a bad guy they can be on you with a gun pointed at you in the blink of an eye.
  • Regardless of where we were carrying, none of us ever got a shot off on the bad guy before we were hit.
  • Those choosing to drive forward through the event all took rounds to the body, neck or head. Driving in reverse at high speed made it harder for the shooter to get rounds on target. Because we were using Airsoft pistols we couldn't tell how effective the rounds to the vehicle might have been.
  • Awareness, avoidance and luck appeared to be your best friend.
Not very encouraging.
 
There is no "effectiveness: of bullets to cars. :) Other than a lucky fluke hit to the computer, the motor will run, the wheels will turn, for many minutes, which of course will translate into many miles covered, if you floor it. If the car is moving say, 30 mph when the engine stops, but no brakes are applied, it will still "coast" for 100 yds or so, if it's not headed up a steep incline. It won't even run off the road, with a brain-hit driver, for 100 ft or so, unless his dying body movements jerk the wheel to one side. Hits to the radiator won't make the car overheat for several minutes, and then you can run it hot for many more minutes before it seizes up. Same with the oil leaked out (completely). Flat tires don't mean a thing if the driver is highly motivated. Only shooting the driver has any short term effect on a car's ability to travel.
 
Two when I was unarmed, "before I had a license". The bad guys won. The three after I was armed, the bad guys lost.
The key was always to me Vigilant, not on a phone or Grooving to the music. The key was to have a pistol out and in plain view of the perps, and either be able to drive off or convince them that it was a bad idea, with the knowledge that you may have to shoot to kill if a gun came out if unable to move the vehicle. Most of the times I was waiting for someone else in the car, "which is not a smart thing to do, especially at night in NYC", in a nice car like late model a Benz or Porshe. It's hard to get keys cut for them, so finding one with a guy who is not paying attention is a score, and a quick 5 grand at any chop shop. Your car will be either disassembled or in a crate to Europe or China, in an hour.
Situational awareness is key with all of these crimes, you need to watch everyone who is in front and behind you, using the mirrors is key to watching who is coming up behind you, and if two or more people split up and go for both sides of the vehicle.
I could tell you what worked for me but it would take too long.
Best thing is not to be in the car until you are ready to go. If you have t wait for someone do it outside or in their house
 
Best thing is not to live in a big city, especially NYC or LA. Nor should you be living anywhere in states like CA. Anyone who is funding the enemy is not a friend.
 
Wherever he lives, I don't want to visit.

BTW, the car door ammo piercing video can be found in an old movie called "Deadly Weapons". Good stuff, but dated - many car doors are NOT as tough as they were in the late 70s, IMHO. Still good info, (fast forward past all the water jug shooting, wasted time), and the end is a trip.
 
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