Training Gun Disarms With a Loaded Handgun (Video)

[Lman57]

Larry Vickers has a you tube video with Russian special forces drills they use loaded firearms doing the same of stuff.

https://youtu.be/rI01qKAqYts

 

[Lord Teapot]

for Teapot.... this kind of training is best done with your own sidearm and remember in real life taking someone's weapon while its in their hand ready to fire is an absolutely last ditch proposition. Many times, if done properly in real life you're going to injure your opponent (it's part of the proposition....) and yes, many times the weapon will fire as the disarm is done. Part of the techniques we taught included a side step away from the muzzle as it is simultaneously deflected away from where it's being pointed. Can't go much farther on this since we're on an open forum. One or two of the techniques involve turning the weapon back on the shooter so if it fires the shooter is on the receiving end...

None of this is stuff that would ever be taught at any basic police academy - it's advanced stuff and needs to be practiced over and over. Most of our young trainers were also SRT team members so they lived tactics and training daily. Having your weapon snatched repeatedly from a supposedly safe, secure, holster that was touted as being designed for weapons retention is a real eye opener for anyone that carries daily. It made our classes very interesting and no one slept through the retention techniques that were taught after everyone had their weapon taken by one trainer or other.... Remember we taught weapon snatches from holsters and weapon retention techniques (how to hang onto your gun in a struggle or just a quick grab by your opponent) in real time and we always needed a few band-aids afterwards. Disarming at close range we always taught in slo motion since many of the techniques were designed from the start to injure your opponent in the process....

Since I haven't carried a sidearm in almost 20 years now (I haven't carried a firearm once since I retired out in Oct 1995... although I've always kept my permit current and valid) it's been a long time since I practiced any of this. Weapons retention is something everyone that carries a gun should learn and practice... It might be important someday.

thanks, i think that'd be the sticker, how to avoid the shot just before the disarm.

 

[HB]

It's a training issue, not a safety issue guys

 

[Bobson]

Not surprisingly, nobody here is cutting to the front of the signup line to partake. It's enormously risky, there's no argument about that; but can anyone prove it doesn't serve a unique purpose that can't be achieved with simunition or a dry gun? I actually believe this does have a very unique benefit. And while I personally wouldn't want to have any part in it, I'm not serving in a foreign military either. As Lman57 pointed out in Post #26, the Israelis aren't the only ones doing this.

Jokes aside, each individual still training this way currently has a 100% success rate.

It should go without saying that civilians needn't train this way, due to the immense unnecessary risk. Cutting into the training methods of foreign militaries keyboard commando style, OTOH, serves literally zero purpose aside from the obligatory THR disclaimer. Outside of that, we may as well be sitting around looking for someone to be impressed by our displays of common sense.

 

[Jeff White]

I actually believe this does have a very unique benefit.

The only possible benefit I can see to this type of training is as a confidence building exercise. However I feel that the risk greatly outweighs that benefit.

This is much more dangerous then putting team members in shoot houses among the targets. Which is another training event I feel is an unnecessary risk.

 

[Bobson]

The only possible benefit I can see to this type of training is as a confidence building exercise. However I feel that the risk greatly outweighs that benefit.

I agree the risk here outweighs any benefit it may have, but that isn't to say it's without benefit entirely.

 

[strambo]

The Vickers video is great! how many people have been shot at, hit, and successfully returned fire? Darn near zero, military or not. The first drill in the Vickers video posted above provides this experience...albeit at an extremely high risk, too high for the Western world.

Training realism and safety are at at opposite ends of the spectrum. Total realism in training would be live fire force on force, as least safe as it gets! Total safety would be "training" via a computer simulator, perfectly safe but dubious training value.

There is no ideal in between. the right balance of realism/safety depends on the trainee skill, trainer skill, mission and environment. For a civilian CCW holder, working up to eventually attending a simmunition FoF class would be probably the peak. For a Tier 1 military unit, even in the western world, you better believe live rounds will be shot with live friendlies down range in training at some point.

I would never be willing to do a live fire disarm, you can get over 90% of the training value with maybe 1% of the risk with airsoft.