George P
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You might be able to find one used for that budget.
Trap/sporting clays shotgun??
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entropy
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As barnfixer and George P have said, you should be able to find a used Citori, maybe a Beretta for $1500 or less. While a 28" or 30" is not optimal, older fixed choke Citoris in these barrel lengths are not that hard to find. For Trap, you'd want a 30" F/M , for Sporting, either length and IC/M, for Skeet, either length and Sk1/Sk2 or IC/M. An IC/M will work for Trap if you stay below 22 yards in Handicap (and you will for a while) and shoot the Mod. choked barrel.
A friend I shoot Trap leagues with had a Beretta for sale for $850 last summer, I shot a round with it, 28" IC/M, and broke 22 at the 16 with it. I was looking at it for a pheasant gun, almost bought it, but another guy I shoot leagues with had a 16 SxS I went with instead. The Beretta would have been a good all-around gun had I been searching for that. I have a very good Trap gun, and an excellent backup, though.
A friend I shoot Trap leagues with had a Beretta for sale for $850 last summer, I shot a round with it, 28" IC/M, and broke 22 at the 16 with it. I was looking at it for a pheasant gun, almost bought it, but another guy I shoot leagues with had a 16 SxS I went with instead. The Beretta would have been a good all-around gun had I been searching for that. I have a very good Trap gun, and an excellent backup, though.
George P
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Ported guns are target guns (and thus a little heavier) while field guns are not. That said browning has 1 or 2 target guns without porting. WHY they're still doing that BS is beyond me. When the top tier target gun makers - Kreighoff, Kolar, Perazzi and Beretta have NEVER ported their barrels, I do not get why Browning is still holding onto that idea from the 1980s
George P
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You can even find some nice much older (but IMO better made) Superposeds from Browning for that price. Now, you might have to open some chokes up, ot have Briley install thin wall choke tubes IF you plan to shoot skeet (close), trap (far), and sporting (from close to far)
That said, for ME, since I shoot 5-stand, sporting, FITASC, Super Sporting and American Field Sporting - IF the Kreighoff Parcour fit me well with its fixed M/IM chokes, I opt for that. However, since the OP seems to be interested in a jack-of-all-trades gun for everything from skeet to trap to sporting chokes tubes would be a better choice.
When chokes first became available,I knew a VERY anal engineer who had every choke constriction from .000 to .045 in .005 constrictions for each barrel. He over-analyzed EVERYTHING and was constantly changing chokes.
DON'T DO THAT. For skeet you want .000, 005. or .010 (C/SK/IC). For trap you M for 16, IM for 20-24 and F for 27. For sporting, learn to shoot and you need one for close, one for most and one for far. When I use my gas gun I have either a LM or M in the gun and carry a SK for that one station where there is a pair of 5 yard rabbits and a IM for that one station where the setter thinks a 50 yard edge-on target is appropriate.
Armorer 101
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I would look for a nice used 20ga Browning 425 with a long barrels for SCs and Trap. If you can handle the trigger difference, a 525 is the first series where you will find interchangeable barrels that work from one gun to another. Allows you to buy an extra set of shorter barrels that may fit your gun, try the barrel set before you buy.
Griffen
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I shoot informal trap and skeet and occasionally sport clays for charity events and for fun, no real competition. This sounds like what the OP is suggesting. I have a Browning Citori 725 in 12 ga with 30” barrels and it shoots wonderfully, but would be above the max budget. I also have a Remington 1100 that I really like the way it shoots, but hate the clean up. I have had the opportunity to shoot Beretta 686’s, A400’s, A391’s, and several different generations of other Citori’s; Beretta’s are great shotguns in my opinion, but I don’t care for the gas action. One thing that has jumped out the last couple of years is that a 20 ga, well used, scores as well as any 12 ga I have in the safe. The last two years I have exclusively used a 20 ga Benelli Ethos. I landed there after buying a 20ga Benelli Montefeltro used for $800 and was so impressed with it I decided to buy essentially the same gun in a more “pretty” version. Never looked back, score better, and the clean up takes about 8 minutes to detail clean. Now I use the Montefeltro for field hunts and the Ethos for clays of all types and couldn’t be more pleased. I saw a 20 ga Benelli Legacy used at a gun show last weekend for an asking of $1200 in perfect condition. I went back to negotiate for it and it was already gone.
Just my views and I know the competitive crowd likes Krieghoff and the like, but this is how I shoot it, YMMV.
I would buy the one that fits best; there’s never a loser in that approach.
Just my views and I know the competitive crowd likes Krieghoff and the like, but this is how I shoot it, YMMV.
I would buy the one that fits best; there’s never a loser in that approach.
entropy
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Nothing wrong with any of the guns you mentioned, Griffen. I agree with you 100% about the Remington, I shoot my 1100 Competition very well, but my Ljutic is much easier to clean. I have a friend who shoots his Ethos very well in the Annie Oakleys at our club.
George P
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While nothing wrong with an 1100, it doesn't hold a candle to a Seitz, Ljutic, Kreighoff, Perazzi or Kolar.
Used to know Dan Orlich - if you're a trap shooter, you recognize the name. he has (maybe had by now) Ljutic serial number 1 single and serial number 1 O/U - and he could SHOOT!
ChanceMcCall
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Apparently I left out important verbiage. The OP was talking about a very low price limit and I failed to include that in my response. That would preclude Brownings from my response had I done so. I am curious however about your statement. At the gun club where I shoot trap Brownings are by far the most popular choice; it is a fact that most of the heavily used ones make fairly regular trips to be serviced and/or rebuilt and none of them have the kind of round count you referenced.
Admittedly, I don't have your level of experience.
George P
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Mine needed new springs and firing pins at 90K; it was semi retired at ~325K in favor of a 12 gauge Beretta gas gun and my Browning Ultra in 20 gauge; then a Beretta DT-11 came along as did a Browning Ultra XT.
My gun, once serviced, would be good as new and would sell for about $1k-$1200 - I don't know what a "very low price limit" is, but if it is much below that, then a good used gas gun would be preferable to a cheap O/U unless you are talking for the most casual of use.
entropy
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Dan Orlich died a few years ago, Jan 18th 2019. A man that has more than just his well-deserved trapshooting fame. He was a Green Bay Packer, played for Curly Lambeau in Lambeau's last season as coach, and like my son did for his senior year, quit because he couldn't stand the replacement coach.
Barnfixer
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I like my pockets full of 20ga vs 12ga when I shoot sporting clays. It like going on a diet.
George P
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Why I have a golf cart with a big basket in front................
RUT
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>>Why I have a golf cart with a big basket in front<<
Same here, and that front basket is a life saver!
Same here, and that front basket is a life saver!
Barnfixer
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I’m shooting at the wrong place.
If at all possible get an o/u 12 gauge to have fun and compete with your son. You are probably looking for a used gun and there are a lot of good guns to choose from. Semi autos tend to jam with reloads, so that would leave you with an o/u or a pump. Good punps are cheap but are slow when shooting "true pairs" (two targets are once). I use to shoot a Win M-12 pump or Beretta Eureka semi with reloads,now only use them for trap and went to a Beretta 682 golden E.for 5-stand and sporting clays and I even beat my kids once in a while.
George P
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Mine pales by comparison to the Polaris 900 and 1000 series 4 passenger rigs with heat and AC, fully enclosed; damn things are as long as my 4-foor F150 and cost about as much
Let me make sure I get this straight - the recommendation is for the father, not the son, correct...? (The son whom, just made the HS trap team, correct...?)
I skimmed the thread quickly, so forgive me if I've missed this detail already - but I haven't seen anyone talk about gun fit...?
For reference, I'm 6' foot tall, with a long(ish) neck. I find that Beretta, Benelli, Remington guns & other which have more drop in the stock, to fit me quite well, out of the box.
I've found that the Browning, Winchester, FN, Mossberg guns which have a straighter comb & less drop, do not fit me well. When I mount guns in this 2nd group, the barrel is pointing WAY up. Put a different way, when I mount these guns, I'm looking at the top of the rib, as opposed to down the length of the rib, as one should...
I have a Beretta A303 semi-auto. Their newer/current guns have very similar stock geometry out of the box. My wife has a Browning Silver. Both very good guns, but my POA to POI is very different with both, because of stock/comb drop.
So I would suggest your friend visit a gun store, and handle a few to see which has a more appropriate fit/feel for him. If he has a longer giraffe-neck like me, then he would probably prefer the Beretta/Benelli/Remington guns. If he has a shorter neck, he'll probably prefer the Browning/Winchester/FN/Mossberg guns.
Unless he wants to dedicate himself & gun, and really focus on trap, then I may advise against a raised rib gun.
Certainly others here with FAR more expereince can weight in with more meaningful advice. But, that's my (very limited clay shooting experience that is...) 2 cents.
The answer to your first question is a yes, I'm helping dad Jeff find a suitable trap/sporting clays shotgun to join his son in pursuit of his hobby. I have several shotguns and have invited him to meet me at my gun club to handle and shoot all of them. Also planning a trip to Scheels to shoulder a number of guns. Jeff is about 5'10" with a stocky muscular build, which suggests a shorter LOP. I have plenty of guns for him to figure that out quickly. Soon he'll make a decision between semi-auto and O/U. I found a terrific Weatherby Orion 28" 20ga yesterday at Cabela's Gun Library, but he's not able to make a decision that quickly. Maybe I forgot to mention that he is leaning toward a 20ga; not my suggestion, but that's what his son shoots. I was pleased to find several good O/U options at the Gun Library. Thanks for the help. Tom
George P
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No, at 5-10, he is the "average male" that gun makers build for; it suggests nothing as to LOP. A lot will depend on pitch, cast Drop at heel and comb, comb thickness, grip style and if curved, how tight the radius is. Englishmen shorter than him shoot straight stocks with 15"+ LOP; do not have try to shoot it like an AR - too many think a 13" rifle LOP means they need that on a shotgun - that would be incorrect.
One thing the newer semis do offer is the ability to change the drop and cast via shims. As a LH, I made my Beretta A400 fit me very well by changing them form the standard factory ones to the max drop and LH cast on. Gun handles like a wand.
DO get him to shoot as many as he can from you and others - even those out of his current price range - just so he can get a better understanding about quality, fit, function, etc. - even if he can't afford it at this time.
One thing the newer semis do offer is the ability to change the drop and cast via shims. As a LH, I made my Beretta A400 fit me very well by changing them form the standard factory ones to the max drop and LH cast on. Gun handles like a wand.
DO get him to shoot as many as he can from you and others - even those out of his current price range - just so he can get a better understanding about quality, fit, function, etc. - even if he can't afford it at this time.
gnappi
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IMO, fit is everything, brand second, action third. If the shotgun doesn't point where he looks or doesn't mount right, keep looking. If he's lucky he'll be "Mr. Average" and a stock gun will fit, but If he finds one that's close to fitting it's worth buying it as it can be fit later on to the shooter. It may not be cheap to find a good guy to fit it, but using the wrong "smith" may cause more costly damage to the gun than help to the shooter.
You're on the right track, shoulder a bunch before choosing.
You're on the right track, shoulder a bunch before choosing.
Today's prices are nuts but here's what I've bought in the last six years: Superposed Lightning, $850; Beretta 686 Essential, $750; Browning Citori Superlight $1100, plus a 1974 BT99 for $650 and a nice 1100 Monte Carlo stocked trap gun with two barrels for $750. All were 90% or better. The guns and deals are there if you keep your eyes open and don't wait too long to pounce. Last week I got an A400 for $200 (won a raffle) but I'm donating it back to the school trap club to raffle again.
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