Trigger comparison: BHP vs Sig SAO

[arthury]

Has anyone compared the trigger performance between the following:

1. Browning High Power (BHP)
2. Sig Sauer P226 Elite SAO

Which one is smoother and crisper?

 

[1KPerDay]

Stock Hi-Power with the mag safety intact?

 

[arthury]

Yes, factory BHP.

 

[AustinTX]

Have you fired a BHP before? I love mine, but the stock BHP trigger is pretty widely regarded as unimpressive at best. There aren't many (or maybe any) high-quality semi-autos that have a worse trigger.

 

[wow6599]

I have a Hi-Power and a Sig 226 Elite Dark (DA/SA), and even though I'm not talking apples to apples (226 SAO), the Elite I have has a much lighter trigger than the BHP if I shoot it with the hammer back (SA) - but not as clean a break.

I would bet an Elite SAO would be several lbs lighter than the Hi-Power, but I'm one of the weird ones who actually likes the BHP's heavier trigger.

 

[WVsig]

Stock the Sig is going to be better. The reset on the Sig will be more determinable. IMHO. The BHP can be a bit vague.

That said remove the mag disconnect, install a lighter hammer spring, 18.5 recoil spring and appropriate firing pin spring, polish a few surfaces and you will have a very good trigger. Take it one step further and you can get a C&S hammer, sear and trigger set and get an excellent trigger.

I am not sure what the Sig goes for but I would imaging they are within a few hundred $$$s of each other depending if you are buying new or used.

Personally for me the ergonomics make the BHP a better gun for me. The slight difference in trigger are completely negated. I will also disclose I am not a huge fan of SAO Sigs. I prefer them in DA/SA as god intended them... LOL.

 

[arthury]

New, they are both about the same price: $950-$1050 range.

So, if I am lazy, the Sig is the way to go, then.

 

[WVsig]

New, they are both about the same price: $950-$1050 range.

So, if I am lazy, the Sig is the way to go, then.

Only if it fits your hand better than the BHP.

 

[arthury]

I have no problems shooting G20 and G29's; so, thickness is not an issue.

Just itching for a similar trigger system similar to a 1911 but at a 9mm caliber.

 

[WVsig]

I have no problems shooting G20 and G29's; so, thickness is not an issue.

Just itching for a similar trigger system similar to a 1911 but at a 9mm caliber.

Then get a 1911 in 9mm. The BHP and the Sig are not 1911s.

 

[arthury]

My understanding is that the 9mm shoehorned into a 1911 is, generally, thought to have somehow decreased its reliability.
This, of course, came from the understanding that the 1911 was designed for the 45ACP cartridge.

Furthermore, I know not one single police department that use a 9mm 1911.

 

[Armor Snail]

I have no problems shooting G20 and G29's; so, thickness is not an issue.

Just itching for a similar trigger system similar to a 1911 but at a 9mm caliber.

A well tuned CZ SAO will get you closer than those two.

And look better doing it[emoji12]

Not mine...but what you want. CZ Custom or Cajun Gun Works can get you where you want to be.

 

[JR24]

Not sure if the SAO trigger system is different on the Sig. But from the DA/SA Sigs I've owned/shot (p220, p225, p226, 2022) the SA is going to definitely be much smoother and crisper than my Hi Power MKIII (Newish, maybe 2011).

From what I've gathered, my BHP's trigger is probably better than average for a stock Hi Power.

That said, all Sig triggers I've shot break really far back in the pull; too far for my liking (might be different with the SAO), to the point that I no longer own any Sig Sauers, and will never part with my BHP.

 

[WVsig]

My understanding is that the 9mm shoehorned into a 1911 is, generally, thought to have somehow decreased its reliability.
This, of course, came from the understanding that the 1911 was designed for the 45ACP cartridge.

Furthermore, I know not one single police department that use a 9mm 1911.

Is it a duty gun? If it isn't who cares. I can't think of a single US police department that issues BHPs, Sig SAO guns or CZs either.

 

[WVsig]

A well tuned CZ SAO will get you closer than those two.

And look better doing it

Not mine...but what you want. CZ Custom or Cajun Gun Works can get you where you want to be.

Cajun does good work but a 1911 it is not. Sorry and if you want to get into custom guns from custom shops then you would have to compare that CZ to Sigs from Gray Guns and BHPs from people like Don Williams.

I would put my BHPs and Gray Guns Sigs that I have owned up against the CGW CZs. In the end what matters most is the interface of the user and the gun. There are no absolutes. There are preferences and in the end IMHO it all comes down to subjective ergonomics.

Talk of this trigger vs that trigger pales in comparison to the subjective ergonomics of a gun in a particular shooters hand which is why these questions never yield real world useful answers. IMHO YMMV

 

[JTQ]

My understanding is that the 9mm shoehorned into a 1911 is, generally, thought to have somehow decreased its reliability.

This long term review of a 9mm 1911 may be another data point for you http://pistol-training.com/archives/8839

 

[Lucky Derby]

VAgunner nailed it.

 

[HexHead]

IMHO. The BHP can be a bit vague.

That said remove the mag disconnect, install a lighter hammer spring, 18.5 recoil spring and appropriate firing pin spring, polish a few surfaces and you will have a very good trigger. Take it one step further and you can get a C&S hammer, sear and trigger set and get an excellent trigger.

Do all that, and if you use any other gun for self defense you'll go to jail. There's a thread about that around here somewhere.

 

[railroader]

As someone else posted you could get a cz75 sa. Here's the 75 shadow sa. All you would need is to have the shop install the straight sa trigger and you would good to go. The ergonomics, the sights and the trigger pull will be very good.

http://czcustom.com/CZ75SHADOWSABLACK.aspx

 

[WVsig]

Do all that, and if you use any other gun for self defense you'll go to jail. There's a thread about that around here somewhere.

I hope that you are joking :banghead:. If you are referring to the recent discussion here the BHP which became and issue was only an issue because the owner accidentally shot someone with their 1911 and the BHP happened to be on the scene and the shooter allowed the Police to search his car and they found it in the glove box.

You are completely misrepresenting the case, the discussion and consequences of removal of the mag disconnect. Most if not all of the top BHPs in the world remove this feature. They certainly know more about the BHP than I do. You will find plenty of people on both sides of the removal of the mag disconnect and the overwhelming odds are that it will never be an issue for any of us. In the end do what you feel is best but do not give advice or use inaccurate scare tactics to persuade people over to your side.

PS in the one case that Ayoob could site from his longtime as a witness and firearms expert the shooter was not convicted. :eek

 

[1KPerDay]

Do all that, and if you use any other gun for self defense you'll go to jail. There's a thread about that around here somewhere.

Uh... what?

 

[ajoker31]

Elite SAO every day. The sigs fit my hand nicely and the BHP's (which I love) don't.

I've had fun tweaking the triggers on the BHP's to get them perfect.....which is a requirement if you want something that resembles a nice trigger on a BHP. I really love the design and the history of the gun but I just can't make it fit my hand. I forced myself to overlook that one drawback for a long time before I finally sold my last one.

I've settled on a Sig X5 level 1 and cant imagine having a better shooter. The adjustable trigger makes it perfect for me.

 

[Pilot]

The BHP trigger can be made excellent if you remove the mag disconnect, and stone the trigger/sear/hammer contact points.

 

[Walt Sherrill]

I have an older BHP and it's got a good trigger and I've added an inexpensive after-market safety lever (still small, but larger than the original T-series safety). This safety on this slightly upgraded BHP is much easier to use (i.e., access) than the safeties on the SIGs. The only thing done to the BHP was to remove the mag safety and polish things up a bit.

I had a P-210-6 for several years, but financial needs led to its sale (along with a S&W 52-2). I'd like to get another P-210, maybe a Legend, some day, but other guns keep calling my name. The P210 was a superb SA gun.

I've had two other SIG SAO guns, as well. A P-226 X-Five "Competition" in .40, and currently, a SIG P220 Super Match. I never could shoot the .40 X-Five well, but others could -- so it was me, not the gun that was the problem. It also wasn't the trigger. The X-Five SAO Competiton trigger was fine. Sig also offers user-tuneable triggers in other models. My problems were with the slide stop and safety lever, which I found more awkward to use than other SA guns. They were both was stiffer than I liked (and I'm sure that COULD have been made better), and not ideally placed. The P-220 Super Match has a very good trigger, but using its slide release and safety is awkward for me, too -- it seems to be basically the same design as those on the P226 X-Five.

Sending the X-Five to Gray Guns would have been the next step for X-Five, but I wasn't sure that gun and I a good match. (I have a P228 with GG enhancements and can only say Gray Guns does outstanding work!) I ended up trading the X-Five for two guns and cash (well-tuned and set up for competition to a guy who wanted a second X-five in .40), so I feel I did well in that exchange. (He probably feels the same.)

These SIGs, unlike the P-210, weren't conceived as SA guns, so I suspect SIG has had to build in "adaptations" that may not be ideal. SIG makes great guns, but I'm not sure that their SA versions based on the P-series DA/SA guns are their best offerings. Many others seem happy with them, however.

 

[Walt Sherrill]

Regarding removing MAG SAFETIES in BHPs...

That has been discussed at length on several forums. I'll over-simplify:

If you use lethal force properly, the removal of a mag safety isn't likely to lead to criminal prosecution.

Even though you're not criminally charged (it was a good shoot!), the removal of the mag safety may be still be an issue for any following CIVIL SUITS, where criminal issues are not addressed. Several lawyers who have weighed in on this topic make the point that the BAD GUY may have an effective lawyer who can convince a Judge and a jury in a civil case that removing that safety is the act of a brigand -- so it could be costly and time-consuming, even if you win your case. Is this likely? I don't know. Has it happened? There's not a lot of case law that suggests any answers.

I don't carry my BHP that has had its mag safety removed. Any carry gun I use will have all "safety features" that came with it from the factory in place -- even if they aren't really "safety" features. Judges and jury can be misled.

I prefer my Glock 38 to my 9mm BHP for carry, anyway, but I suspect my BHP is every bit as safe as the Glock. I carry a Kel-Tec PF9, most often, and I'm sure the BHP is just as safe...