Trigger guards and proper hold

[KJS]

I'm used to firing revolvers where every trigger guard is rounded.

Yet I can't help but notice that many semi-auto pistols -- CZ 75B as one of many examples -- have a trigger guard where the front is squared off and has serrations as if to provide a non-slip grip for index finger of your support hand.

In reading CZ-USA's catalog they do a review of this model and the author is shown holding it just as I would hold a revolver (no finger on the front of the trigger guard) and the pic is captioned to say that in a proper hold no finger is on the trigger guard front.

This begs the question, if a proper hold keeps fingers off the front of the trigger guard, then why does the 75B had it flat-fronted with serrations? The original version introduced in 1975 has a rounded trigger guard just like revolvers, leaving no question about how to hold it.

Yet, in two other places in that same CZ-USA catalog one can see CZ's champion shooter Angus Hobdel using a very high-end 75 and this champion can't seem to keep his left index finger off the front of that trigger guard. I'd tend to assume championship-level shooters know how to correctly hold a firearm.

So is one supposed to put the index finger of their support hand on the front of the trigger guard if they so desire? I realize a gun should be held as high as possible for best control of recoil/muzzle flip. I suppose using the front of the trigger guard allows an even higher hold.

So how would you personally hold such a gun?

 

[Quickstrike]

I don't hold the front of the trigger guard. NOBODY teaches this today. Never seen good competition shooters do it either.

Modern Iso/combat grip for me.

IMO, it removes pressure that would otherwise be beneficial for your support hand. No way you can hold as firmly with the booger finger extended.

 

[loadedround]

The squared off trigger guard, often serrated, was a popular custom item several years ago supposedly for better control in the various action pistol events. It has fallen out of favor these days and is seldom seen in either factory or custom pistols. It did look sharp on the various 1911's though.

 

[Greg528iT]

I do not like the squared off trigger guards on 1911s.

 

[burley]

The squared off guard is for shooting from behind a barricade. you butt that flat, serrated guard into your cover and it digs in. A rounded guard would not dig in.

 

[bannockburn]

KJS

Simply put, the trigger guard finger hold does not work. The finger on the trigger guard always comes off at the moment the gun fires. I've watched it happen with a friend of mine while he was shooting, and I've seen it in slow motion on a number of live fire videos.

 

[Roswell_Kid]

Obviously some will argue that wrapping a finger on that section of the trigger guard works. Perhaps the logic of manufacturers like CZ is that the presence of the squared-off, serrated guard leaves an option open, and should not otherwise interfere with carrying or firing by those who choose not to use it.

However, I'm with Quickstrike and bannockburn. To me, it just uglies up my CZ 75 Compact and I am seriously considering rounding it off.

 

[ForumSurfer]

It's an annoyance. I can only imagine that the trigger guard is only beefy and square to promote structural integrity in composites and for aesthetics. A thinner, rounded trigger guard on my glock would be ugly (and my glock is already ugly), but it seems that it would make it easier to conceal.

 

[Manco]

This begs the question, if a proper hold keeps fingers off the front of the trigger guard, then why does the 75B had it flat-fronted with serrations?

I guess it's a harmless feature that gives people the option of placing their support-hand index finger on the trigger guard if that's how they prefer to hold a gun.

Yet, in two other places in that same CZ-USA catalog one can see CZ's champion shooter Angus Hobdel using a very high-end 75 and this champion can't seem to keep his left index finger off the front of that trigger guard. I'd tend to assume championship-level shooters know how to correctly hold a firearm.

Sensible people will do whatever is most comfortable and/or works best for them, and maybe this hold works well for some people. I'd argue against this type of hold, personally, but ultimately everybody is different, and who am I to tell people what works best for them?

So is one supposed to put the index finger of their support hand on the front of the trigger guard if they so desire?

Only if you want to, and not just because it's there.

I realize a gun should be held as high as possible for best control of recoil/muzzle flip. I suppose using the front of the trigger guard allows an even higher hold.

I can see how it gives more leverage to the support-hand index finger to help control muzzle-flip, but in my opinion extending the finger like that weakens the overall hold. I've tried it before, and I don't think it works for me for that very reason, but maybe some people shoot better with it.

A parallel example is how my sister shoots better (faster with accuracy) when she places her support-hand thumb behind her other wrist. I keep telling her to stop doing that or else the slide will lacerate her thumb someday , but it hasn't happened yet and it really does seem to help her weak wrist cope with recoil.

So how would you personally hold such a gun?

I'd simply ignore this feature and hold it like I would any other handgun. In general, I prefer to do things as generically as possible so that I don't have to adapt so much to each specific weapon and its unique set of features (all else being equal, simpler is usually better). Apart from that philosophy, I do whatever works best for me.

For example, some folks suggest not applying any pressure with the thumbs because it could slightly throw off one's aim at times. I can shoot fine like that and used to do it all the time (with both thumbs pointing forward and resting lightly on the frame just below the slide with an autoloader), but I found that when shooting one-handed, my hold didn't quite feel as secure as it could (my hands are strong but a bit stubby), and I became concerned over weapon retention in a real fight, so I switched to bending my thumb downward and actively using it to help hold the gun (when shooting two-handed, my support-hand thumb curls over my other thumb). This is actually the strongest type of hold I can use, and I shoot fine with it, so that's how I hold all handguns now; it also helps keep my hand high and my thumbs clear of the controls.

 

[KurtC]

There is no "proper" way to hold a handgun. There are many ways to manipulate the way it is held, to achieve various effects or corrections. Use whatever works for you.

The trigger guard hold was popular in the 1980s, when the military and most LE departments were getting their first taste of DA autos. The method falls in and out of favor every few years, much like Weaver vs Isosceles stance.

I seldom see the trigger guard hold used today, until it becomes time to qualify from the 25 yd line.

 

[9mmepiphany]

as KurtC has posted the triggerguard hold was very popular in the 80s in USPSA/IPSC competition when there was a belief that a strong enough grip/leverage would permit you to hold a (non-compensated) gun down during recoil...this was one of the factors in folks believing that you could actually shoot double taps (1 sight picture and 2 quick trigger putting 2 rounds on target).

this grip looks interesting and became popular in TV and movies. manufacturers began including the hooked trigger guard on their guns, because the hooked guard looks more cool/angular/modern than the older looking round trigger guards.

testing in the late 80s, proved the fallacy of the double tap and placing the index finger on the triggerguard or the push-pull hand pressure over the more accurate and faster enveloping thumbs forward grip when used to manage recoil

the CZ catalog correctly describes not using the squared off guard in gripping the gun. Angus Hobdel uses the grip that he does because a a wrist injury that does not allow his to straighten his wrist. the straightened support wrist allows the most contact between the hand and the gun and the highest hand placement. this is on a Sig 220ST, which also comes with a hooked trigger guard...you can see the serrations


this is it's alloy framed sibling with the hook removed

 

[yeti]

The only gun I have with the hooked trigger guard is a S&W 645, totally useless, but for some reason it just looks 'right' on that gun. And it makes it easier to find in the dark, the 10 lb. handgun with the square trigger guard is the S&W .45.

 

[zombienerd]

My Bersa Thunder .380 has the slightly hooked trigger guard with serrations.. I find that my support hand naturally falls where my index finger rests on top of it. It makes sense with that size of gun, and is quite comfortable.

 

[The Lone Haranguer]

I don't care for some of the hooks, beaks and can openers on the fronts of trigger guards, but you don't have to put your finger there.

 

[labhound]

I shoot my Stoeger Cougar 9mm and my Beretta 92FS more accurately with the thumbs forward grip and my support hand index finger in front of the trigger guard. It works for me, maybe not for others.

 

[KJS]

the CZ catalog correctly describes not using the squared off guard in gripping the gun. Angus Hobdel uses the grip that he does because a a wrist injury that does not allow his to straighten his wrist.

Thanks for the information. I had no idea his choice of hold was a result of injury.

the straightened support wrist allows the most contact between the hand and the gun and the highest hand placement. this is on a Sig 220ST, which also comes with a hooked trigger guard...you can see the serrations

Thanks for the pic as well to illustrate the hold you use. I can't imagine a higher hold than that nor more contact, though it looks totally foreign to me. I'm used to shooting a revolver and having my right thumb firmly pressed against the grip and wrapping my left thumb over my right thumb (like you I'm right handed). Obviously, your right thumb can't be pressed against that gun otherwise it would get in the way of the slide.

Actually, I've never been sure exactly how thumbs are supposed to be positioned, other than keeping them on the same side is the proper way. I learned that one real fast from a .22 Ruger pistol last summer that sent the bolt flying back to bash a knuckle. In addition to telling me it's out of ammo, it also very clearly told me to make sure both my thumbs are on the left out of the way of metal objects that fly back with considerable force.

I remember seeing a pic of prolific gun writer, Patrick Sweeney, holding a Ruger SuperRedHawk .454 in the same manner as you're holding a pistol and he captioned the pic with something like "No, my finger doesn't get blasted by the cylinder gap," obviously since others like me might think that's getting dangerously close with his index finger right up to the front of the cylinder when stuck straight out.

 

[9mmepiphany]

here's an overhead view


i used to wrap my left thumb over the web of my right hand when i used to shoot a bull-barreled PPC revolver, but it really does compromise the left hand's contact on the grip. my wrist isn't as straight when shooting a revolver due to the angle of it's gripframe and location/shape of the trigger guard, this tends to pull my left thumb back a bit away from the front of the cylinder

 

[Mad Magyar]

The front serrations gives you a reassuring grip when "Keep your finger off the trigger until.........". The squared trigger guard, a favorite of the great smith, Armand Swenson, also gave you more room for a gloved finger for our pistoleros who live way up "North"....

 

[beeenbag]

I cannot put my finger on the trigger guard. I tried it when I first got my glock and was pulling to the left every shot. I changed my grip and problem solved. I use 9mmepiphany's displayed grip by the way.

 

[capttom]

As this topic shows, many shooters don't care for the squared off guard. One of the writer's for Shotgun News even goes so far as to talk about how "operators" refuse to even consider a forward off-hand grip using the squared trigger guard. I sometimes ran a switchboard in my college days - giving the regular operator her cigarette breaks - and I swear, I never used that sort of grip.
I don't miss the style on my S&W 908 or most of my other semi-suatos. However, my bed gun, a CZ 100, has a squared trigger guard and I think I shoot better and faster when I use it. The -100 has a long "double action" only pull and I find a forward grip helps me better cope with the trigger.
I'd hate to think I was doing it wrong.

 

[oboe]

Burley: "The squared off guard is for shooting from behind a barricade. you butt that flat, serrated guard into your cover and it digs in. A rounded guard would not dig in."

Seems reasonable. That said, these squared and serrated guards seem to be very, very common, even in newer models.

 

[David E]

The squared off guard is for shooting from behind a barricade. you butt that flat, serrated guard into your cover and it digs in. A rounded guard would not dig in.

It wasn't designed for that.

It the mid 70's into the mid 80's, the "finger forward" hold was prominent among some top IPSC shooters. Subsequently, custom smiths (Swenson, Clark, etc) started the trend which was picked up by some gun makers. Gotta keep up with the times, dontcha know (much like the accessory rail that is now standard on virtually any mid to full size gun)

As shooters kept looking for the "better way," it was soon discovered that the finger-forward hold had more disadvantages than advantages. Very, very few top shooters (one?) use the finger-forward hold.

That you could use the squared triggerguard in a barricade situation is certainly true (tho not recommended) that is not the reason it was developed.

 

[burley]

"It wasn't designed for that."

True, but my .02c fwiw, is, it evolved into that. That's why police and military sidearms have 'em and they teach the grip show above. police and military are more likely to shoot a sidearm from behind a barricade I imagine. Any advantage in a shoot out/standoff I guess.

That said, Jeff Quinn of gunbalst hooks his finger over the guard. Here's a video if you've never seen one;
http://www.gunblast.com/images/Taurus-PT1911AL/Taurus-PT1911AL-HI.wmv

 

[David E]

It wasn't designed for barricade shooting, it was in response to the then popular finger-forward hold.

That some cop somewhere had the bright idea to use it for a barricade shooting technique is moot.

Not to mention the fact that it's not a good technique.

 

[Hangingrock]

This is a very early production example of the S&W-4506 modified. It had the concave trigger guard and OEM sights pre Novak.


The trigger guard is re-contoured and the slide machined to except the rear Novak sight that came with the later production 4506 and 4506-1.

I’ve never understood the concave hook trigger guard configuration which was esthetically non-pleasing/ non-functional and the awful checkering. There are much too many fads/gimmicks that come and go in regards to competitive shooting that influence the market place. :banghead:

There’s a lot of whining which comes from the fat lazy out of shape crowd in regards to the size/weight of the 4506.