Trigger guards and proper hold

[burley]

You are more than likely right and know way more about it than I do. I' just opining on possibilities. I have a CZ PCR with a laser grip and fancy the barricade technique as an option. I think that may even be one of CT's selling points.

Just for grins why do they still make them like that when that 30 year old technique is used by so few and not taught today? Who makes a rounded guard these days? Ruger? Even the Smith M&P line has a sharp angled guard.

How 'bout Quinn's finger forward grip? He even shoots little pocket guns that way. I'd be afraid I'd shoot my finger off.

 

[Sam1911]

"It wasn't designed for that."

True, but my .02c fwiw, is, it evolved into that. That's why police and military sidearms have 'em and they teach the grip show above. police and military are more likely to shoot a sidearm from behind a barricade I imagine. Any advantage in a shoot out/standoff I guess.

Not only is that not the original point, not current best practices, and most definitely not "WHY" this feature appears on military and police guns, it is pretty horrible technique for working with a barricade. If you really want to screw up your POA -vs.- POI, allow your gun to bump a solid object while you're shooting. Surely police and military pistol training hasn't sunk THAT low?

 

[REAPER4206969]

Who makes a rounded guard these days?

Beretta has done away with square guards on their updated models.

 

[Red Cent]

"Most Open Class shooters use wings on the rings or on the gun to help lock it in and some opt for a finger lug, like I do. Now the trick here, for a right handed shooter on the right hand side of the barricade, is to draw, transfer the gun into the weak hand and then you’re actually grabbing and locking the gun on the barricade with your strong hand. This enables a super stable shooting position to shoot all X’s on the barricade stage. But this technique doesn’t work in the Stock Gun division because you are not allowed to touch the barricade. That’s a whole different set of challenges."

 

[burley]

Sam, you know way more about it than I. I can only imagine being in a shoot-'em-up. If there was a barricade or cover of any kind I could utilise, I'd be cowering behind it. At that point, POI vs POA, techniqe, training and sinking to new lows would be the least of my worries.

Reaper, before I stated that about the rounded guard, I googled beretta 92. I didn't see that gun you posted. That is one bad a$$ looking Beretta! They're all made that way now?

Red Cent, if you'd do that, hook your finger over the slide, with my CZ PCR loaded with SD ammo you're a better man than me. I mean it's interesting, but, I don't want to shoot my hand. Looks more like something you'd do in a specialized shooting game with light loads and a specialized gun to me. google wings on the rings and you come up with onion rings and Buffalo wings.

 

[REAPER4206969]

They're all made that way now?

No, just the 90-TWO (pictured) and the 92A1/96A1.

 

[Sam1911]

...I can only imagine being in a shoot-'em-up. If there was a barricade or cover of any kind I could utilise, I'd be cowering behind it.

As well you should! The issue is, though, that the best use of cover is generally not to crowd it. You can effectively use cover from a surprising distance away from it. Being jammed tight against it restricts your range of motions and causes you to use cramped, unnatural stances/holds that don't help your accuracy. (Or encourages you to project your gun/hands/arms beyond the barricade which is tactically unsound.) Staying back a few feet allows you to use your normal shooting techniques with only a stance modification (lean or what have you) to get your head and gun exposed enough to clear the barricade.

Bumping the barricade, or having your gun rubbing/resting against a fixed object almost invariably will put the shot somewhere you didn't mean it to go. Using a clamped-to-the-barricade, switch-hands grip like that R.C.'s race-gunner is showing is a competition trick that takes both practice and an application of some strategy (the delay of switching hands, reacquiring the target, setting up your support grip, etc. is offset by the accuracy of "benchresting" your scoped pistol for very long shots).

That's not a tactic that would likely to be applied successfully in a gunfight by your average gun toter or cop. If you've trained yourself to do this well through a lot of practice and experience, you won't be asking for advice here on how to do it.

 

[Manco]

Who makes a rounded guard these days? Ruger? Even the Smith M&P line has a sharp angled guard.

Well, the M&P's trigger guard, angled though it may be, is designed to accommodate heavily-gloved hands, and definitely not for placing one's support-hand index finger on the outside (it wouldn't work well at all) or any techniques involving barricades, as you should be able to see in the following image:

Beretta has done away with square guards on their updated models.

Didn't the original Beretta 92 have rounded guards?

 

[KJS]

Beretta has done away with square guards on their updated models.

Yeah, I'd noticed that the 90-Two is rounded, unlike the squared off 92. Just happened to notice that detail the other week when I came across a Beretta brochure. Though that really seems like a bad way to specify model since they both sound the same when spoken. When speaking is one supposed to say "nine zero dash T-W-O" so they don't sound exactly the same?

 

[Deus Machina]

As has been said, it was popular for a while, it faded out, it may come back.

I'm a fan of the 'finger in front of the guard' technique if 1) the trigger guard is hooked, not flat (mine didn't slip off the hooked ones, if I controlled them right) and 2) It's a relatively short reach.

The trigger reach on my PCR is delightful, but it has a spacious guard that makes the front serrations almost useless because I can't hook a finger over them enough. It's really just a comfort thing, anyway.

Really, if I wasn't worried about voiding the warranty and how it would look, I may round the trigger guard.

 

[burley]

http://www.gunblast.com/SW_MP9.htm

Here's Quinn again, finger forward on an M&P doing rapid fire. Doesn't he read this forum?

I'm pretty comfortable with my conclusion that the squared, serrated guard found on SD and combat hand guns are there to utilise any way you want to, have to or need to. Wings on rings? Me? Not so comfy. I'll leave that to you experts.

DM, if you round that PCR guard be sure and post a pic. I'd like to see it.

 

[Sam1911]

Here's Quinn again, finger forward on an M&P doing rapid fire.

Hmmm... wouldn't exactly call that "rapid" fire. He's running a "Bill Drill" basically, at a pretty leisurely pace.

Maybe watching an accomplished shooter work would be more instructive: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jYORREJSnwk

 

[burley]

Wow, you guys are amazing. he's shooting at a pace I couldn't match with my Ruger Mark II and my G 27 would be out of control.

The sad truth is, I spend more time on the 'net and gun forums than I do honing my shooting skills. I'm a long time gun owner, >30 years and at one time reloaded and shot on my own private range. Another sad truth, my "private range" was behind a trailer where I plinked cans and such. press, most guns and stuff, lost in a divorce. trailer too. I now live in the city and shoot a couple of times a month. I got interested in SD a couple of years ago when a man down the steet was shot in the back taking out his trash. CC, situational awareness, and a pocket flashlight are what I'm doing these days.

Thanks for the vid. That woman is good at her craft and MUCH easier on the eyes than Quinn.

 

[Manco]

http://www.gunblast.com/SW_MP9.htm

Here's Quinn again, finger forward on an M&P doing rapid fire.

This doesn't change the fact that the M&P's trigger guard is neither designed nor optimized for a finger-forward hold, being sloped and having no serrations.

Doesn't he read this forum?

Like I keep saying, people can hold handguns in any manner they prefer. Not every hold works equally well for everybody.

I'm pretty comfortable with my conclusion that the squared, serrated guard found on SD and combat hand guns are there to utilise any way you want to, have to or need to.

Yes, but the M&P does not have these features. If some shooters still see an advantage in gripping a trigger guard that isn't designed to be gripped, then that's their prerogative.

 

[9mmepiphany]

That woman is good at her craft and MUCH easier on the eyes than Quinn.

and she doesn't slap at the trigger like he does either

 

[REAPER4206969]

Didn't the original Beretta 92 have rounded guards?

Yes.