trim to length vs resize to length?

[wastedimage]

Does the trip to length mean before or after resizing?

Right now I'm trimming (on .223) to about 1.747 instead of 1.750 since after resize my case ends up about 1.753-1.755. Is this a fairly good fit or can i trim even more?

I'm shooting these out of an lwrc m6a2 so I don't expect it to be super picky.

 

[Walkalong]

After resizing

Resize, then trim to 1.750.

 

[wastedimage]

Ah I didn't explain all the way. So I know that would be ideal but since this is just plinking ammo in a non match sub 1moa etc etc gun I'm trying to avoid that. I have a dillon 550 so trimming after resize will add considerable time to my cycle (progressive press). I figure if i trim slightly below 1.750 and then resize is just slightly above I can trim all day today then reload all day tomorrow things will go much more quickly. Opinions?

 

[Walkalong]

As long as they do not end up too long, you will be OK. Personally, I prefer to resize all my brass, tumble to remove the lube, trim as needed, tumble a short time again, hand prime, then load.

 

[rcmodel]

The trimmer pilot doesn't fit the case neck (loose fit) if you trim before sizing.

That can allow chattering or an angled cut on the mouth.

rc

 

[wastedimage]

Hmm..I have an RBCS trim pro with cham and debur head..Seems to fit just fine. I've done about 20 cases and then resized after. Everything seems just fine. As i said the post resize length comes out maybe +-.02 but since its ever so slightly above 1.751 each time I don't *think* (and correct me if i'm wrong heh) i'll have any issues.

 

[counterclockwise]

If you are not crimping the case mouth into a bullet cannelure, then you can float the trim length somewhat. Just make sure your set up develops sufficient neck tension from the interference fit between bullet and case neck. I think the MilSpec for M855 requires 34 lbs retaining force between bullet and case.

If you are crimping the case mouth to the bullet then you really need to trim to a standard size. Also, as mentioned above, do not go over 1.760 Max. unless you specifically measure the neck relief step in your chambers. The 1.760 Max is a real requirement for my Colt and Bushy chambers.

 

[wastedimage]

Ahh..Ok I'll have to double check. I think half my bullets are and half are not. Thanks for the tip. How exactly does case length affect the crimp die's ability to crimp? Seems like so long as there is enough brass in the neck it would crimp just fine..It could just end up too long.

That said all my brass even resized (I did like 10% at random to check) comes out around 1.753 so I *should* be fine either way right? It is correct to assume that since the spec allows 1.750-1.760 then it should crimp properly anywhere within that margin (assuming this also results in the COL being within margins).

 

[Walkalong]

Consistent case lengths give more consistent crimps. One very short will have little to no crimp, and one very long may well get buckled by the crimper.

 

[ranger335v]

"Does the trip to length mean before or after resizing?"

No one really cares how long a fired, or "tripped", case is.

We do care what the loaded case length is, and that means resized.

 

[wastedimage]

I decided I'd try some of each and then see if I can tell any difference. So that leads me to one more question. Assume I lube resize, trim, and tumble. Now do I have to lube them again the 2nd time I move them though the size/prime station or since they are already resized is everything going to be ok?

Thanks

 

[rcmodel]

Well, if I were you, I would figure out a way to avoid sizing them a 2nd. time after they are already sized & trimmed.

How bout if you just take the sizing die out the second trip through?

If you do size again, you do need to use case lube again.

rc

 

[wastedimage]

Rcmodel, that is a damn fine idea. Thanks!

 

[Walkalong]

Someone needs a reloading manual in the worst way, and I say that with all due respect.

 

[The Bushmaster]

wastedimage...Do you have one? Reloading manual that is...

 

[something vague]

It sounds as if you should be loading these rounds on a single stage press for a little while till you get some more experience with proper loading techniques. Having a consistant case length is absolutely needed for a consistant crimp. Stop and think about what a crimping die is doing. You've adjusted your crimping die to one case with a certain length. Once you get the desired amount of crimp on that one case you lock it in place. Now you throw another round in there that has a different case length, therefore you end up with a crimp that is no where near what you initially set the die to perform. Not sure if I'm explaining this well enough but should come to you if you stop and think about how that crimp die is working, and the same goes for the rest of the tools that your using. Understand what their function is and things will become much easier for you. I would reccomend buying some books on the subject like ABC's of reloading and anything else you can get your hands on.

 

[wastedimage]

Yeah I have several thanks. Just looking for advice working with a progressive loader since all my books use a single. I've been loading pistol for quite some time with no issues. Just trying to make sure I've got the rifle stuff down before I actually load anything. Sounds like the best way is to just to size, trim, and tumble then pull the sizing die.

What I've been trying to get though with all this is why does dillon use a sizing die at station one since it seems to make much more sense to size then trim like all the single die press (keep in mind I'm only talking about rifle cals here..). I guess if you buy new brass this isn't an issue. But still puzzling.

 

[dmazur]

I also have a Dillon 550, which I use for bottleneck cartridges.

As has been mentioned, trim to length following resizing, which can cause the case neck to "grow".

You can minimize the need to trim by using dies that are designed to minimize neck stretch. RCBS has an X-Die (?) and Hornady has an elliptical expander. Each of these has a different approach, but the idea is to reduce the tendency of full-length sizing dies to stretch the neck.

At any rate, you can "break out" the resizing operation on a 550 by just removing the brass after resizing (and repriming, if you're using the 550 for that operation as well). There is no need to index around all the stations. If the little retaining wire is adjusted properly, it permits removal at station 1 with just a gentle pull.

Once you have a tub full of resized brass, you can clean (or tumble) off excess lube and check for trim length with a Wilson gauge. Separate the brass into two tubs, "trim" and "OK".

Run the overlength ones through your trim & chamfer tools, and then you're set for the 550 again.

This time, insert the brass at station 1 and index before pulling the handle. That way the die at station 1 never sees any brass, and doesn't do undesirable things like resize already-sized brass and deprime a primed case.

I've found that by doing the resizing separately, the powder measure throws slightly more uniform charges. I'm guessing it's because the force/vibration of resizing can vary a little, especially if you don't segregate brass by brand, and this might somehow affect the powder flow. The bullet seating operation is very uniform by comparision.

However, the main advantage of breaking out the resizing, IMO, is that you don't run lubed cases through the rest of the stations on your press. Depending on the lube you use, you can have some issues with it accumulating is places you don't want it.

Oh, and if you buy new brass, it usually has to be sized anyway. While the "headspace" length may be correct, the neck sizing usually hasn't been done. Also, the mouth is rarely uniform or chamfered properly. (Now you can get "prepped" brass from Nosler, et al, but the typical Winchester or Remington factory brass isn't prepped.)

While you certainly can remove the die at station 1 after resizing, this kind of implies you have to set it up again the next time you use it. I find the "index before pulling handle" technique works just fine, and that way I don't have to readjust the die.

 

[oneounceload]

Yeah I have several thanks. Just looking for advice working with a progressive loader since all my books use a single.

Reloading books use a single stage??? HUH???

Did you get a manual for your progressive? What does it say to do for that step?

 

[dmazur]

I'll jump in here -

The 550B manual just sort of "glosses over" reloading rifle calibers. The manual does caution the user that lube is required for rifle, and is optional for pistol if you have carbide dies. Other than that, there isn't really much discussion of bottleneck vs. straight wall issues. What is conspicuously absent is case trim length.

After trying several different "dry lubes" that would go though the press without messing up the powder drop, I decided that none of these were reliable enough to prevent stuck cases in the resizing die. I gave up and I now do resizing as a separate operation, which permits removal of excess lube. The 550B handles powder charge/bullet seating just fine, with prepped brass.

In regard to manuals, the Speer manual (#13) has a section on progressive presses, but the cautions are general in nature, and suggest the reloader read the factory manual to make sure it is set up properly. Speer suggests handling lube problems with a separate lube/deprime die, and then modifying the resizing die by removing the depriming pin. (This won't work on a 550B)

So, the OP isn't crazy to ask questions about reloading bottleneck cartridges on a 550B. I've read a lot of manuals, and the answers to these questions don't seem to be readily available, other than in general terms.

 

[Wildyams]

what you might consider doing is - getting another, single stage, press. something like the lee breech lock challenger press (about $50) you could probably go cheaper if you wanted

then take the resizing die out of your dillon, and put it in the single stage press, resize your brass, trim it, then run them through the dillon without resizing them on it.

I'm not really familiar with dillons, so I don't know if this is actually possible, just sounded like a simple idea

 

[Walkalong]

For rifle brass I run them through my LNL using only the sizer in station one. I even remove the powder measure. I let them just make their way around and drop into the catch bin lined with paper towel to keep the lube off of it. As the bin fills I dump them in another container. Then I take them to the shed to tumble them. If trimming is needed I trim them. If I trim them, I tumble them again for a short time. Then I prime them with my RCBS hand primer. One could prime them while loading, but that is how I do it. Then I put all my dies, except the sizer, on my LNL, set up my powder measure, and load them all.


If the brass doesn't need trimming, some folks just lube and load at the same time, then tumble to remove the lube.

I pre-size everything I load (rifle & pistol), then hand prime, & then load sans the sizer. I really like how much smoother everything is loading without sizing at the same time.

Wildyams idea of using a single stage press to do the sizing prior to loading in the progressive is a good one, and many people do just that.

 

[rcmodel]

While you certainly can remove the die at station 1 after resizing, this kind of implies you have to set it up again the next time you use it.

Unless using the stupid Lee O-Ring nut on the die, there is nothing to "set-up" again.

Once the die is adjusted once and the lock-ring locked to the die with the set-screw, it never needs to be "set up" again.
You just screw it out and screw it in.

rc

 

[Walkalong]

Unless using the stupid Lee O-Ring nut on the die, there is nothing to "set-up" again.

Yep. Folks have done it this way for forever. Adjust the die, using a good ring that won't move on the die, then just screw them on and off the press as needed.

I finally found a good use for Lee lock dies though. They work fine for locking them to a turret or an LNL bushing where they won't need to be removed.

 

[rcmodel]

I drilled & tapped every one I own for a 6-32 set screw & a lead shot.

rc