Quantcast
  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Tripple 7 fffg for 45 Colt Cartridges?

Discussion in 'Handloading and Reloading' started by Ed Gallop, Oct 2, 2007.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Ed Gallop

    Ed Gallop Member

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2007
    Messages:
    177
    Location:
    Stuart, VA
    I've been loading black powder in 45 Colt cartridges but decided to go for the cleaner Tripple 7. I used my son's ffg Tripple 7 and it shot well last week. I bought fffg Tripple 7 and it says (in red) on the label, "Do Not Use fffg Tripple 7 in cartridges". It also says to use it as you would black powder. Am I missing something? I load the desired ffg powder (20 gr.), compress with a Vegetable Wad, fill with grits to a level for good bullet compression, and it shoots great. Is there a problem with fffg that ffg doesn't have?
     
  2. zxcvbob

    zxcvbob Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2007
    Messages:
    5,061
    Location:
    S.E. Minnesota
    Maybe they don't want you using it in huge rifle cartridges in weak antique firearms. (I believe 777 is about 20% stronger than BP)

    Bob
     
  3. Bad Flynch

    Bad Flynch Member

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2004
    Messages:
    494
    Location:
    Indian Territory
    I do not remember just what the problem was, but there was one and it has bee reported.

    However, figuring that 777 is cleaner is an illusion. While it is true that is produces less black fouling, the fouling produced is at least as corrosive and maybe more corrosive than the fouling produced by BP.

    Here is the scoop: BP is based on Salt Petre, Potassium Nitrate. When it gives up its nitrate, it becomes mostly Potassium Carbonate, a strong alkali like Washing Soda. That promotes rusting. However, it is mostly water soluble and can be effectively neutralized by vinegar.

    777 and Pyrodex are based with Potassium Perchlorate. That is the same Potassium Perchlorate as was in the legendary corrosive military priming. When Potassium Perchlorate gives up its oxygen, it becomes Potassium Chloride (KCl). Potassium Chloride is a neutral salt very much akin to Sodium Chloride (Table Salt).

    Potassium Chloride attracts moisture, penetrates the pores of the steel, and will allow corrosion under an oil film. Potassium Chloride must be removed with water and really nothing else will work. There is some indication that using commercial water-based solvents containing ammonia may make this worse. Maybe not, the jury is still out on that one.

    Go ahead and shoot a faux powder. Pyrodex is an otherwise excellent product and works well in cartridges. I have used it myself. Just remeber to clean as vigorously with water as you would have with Black Powder and everything will be fine.
     
  4. Ed Gallop

    Ed Gallop Member

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2007
    Messages:
    177
    Location:
    Stuart, VA
    I've searched the web in vain for a reason not to use fffg Tripple 7 in cartridges, including the Hodgen site. I came to the conclusion that Tripple 7 of any granulation should not be used in a cartridge where a filler is needed to reduce the powder charge, such as the huge cavity of the 45 Colt.

    It is strongly stressed that no filler of any kind be used with Tripple 7. The only thing between the bullet base and powder should be a wad no more than .030" thick. Guess I'll have to use it in my 1860 Army or other non-cartridge handgun. I'll stick with the old black powder in the Colt 45 just to be safe.

    Tripple 7 is cleaner. There is less mess and odor, but it has to be cleaned just like black powder does. The rounds I fired in my 45 Colt had very little discoloration of the brass in comparison with black powder or smokeless.
     
  5. zxcvbob

    zxcvbob Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2007
    Messages:
    5,061
    Location:
    S.E. Minnesota
    Reduce the powder charge? You've confused me... I use a compressed charge of 777 whenever I load .45 Colts with it (which is not very often) But I am shooting a Ruger Blackhawk...
     
  6. Ed Gallop

    Ed Gallop Member

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2007
    Messages:
    177
    Location:
    Stuart, VA
    A full 45 Colt cartridge of Triple 7 is a heavy charge. It is considerably more power than black powder. I have shot a full cartridge of black powder and it is a little too much for me to be comfortable with. I normally shoot 25g to 30g with a pad and grits filler. Hodgen says that is a no no with Tripple 7. I do not know if it is though. I did it with ffg and it didn't seem to be a problem but I'm afraid to do it with fffg after reading Hodgen's warnings. That is what this post is about.

    Hodgen suggest Tripple 7 not be compressed much if at all, but no air gap. They say it performs best when the bullet just touched the powder.
     
  7. Bullet

    Bullet Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2003
    Messages:
    1,388
    Location:
    Kansas
    Hodgdon has data for Triple 7 ffg -

    http://www.hodgdon.com/data/muzzleloading/granular/t7cartridge.php

    I'd give Hodgdon a call.
     
  8. Ed Gallop

    Ed Gallop Member

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2007
    Messages:
    177
    Location:
    Stuart, VA
    The 30gr load is a bit heavy for my comfort and it can't be reduced. I believe 30gr of Tripple 7 is equal to 35gr of black powder and that is about what I shoot in my heavy duty Wakler. I think it is a bit much for the 45 Colt. I shoot a lot of lead and want the revolver to last.

    I did manage to reach Hodgen and the extra power of fffg is beyond the limit at 30gr and should not be used. I did shoot 20gr of ffg with a wad and filler and it seemed okay but apparently it is not safe so I will not do it again. My fffg will last a long time shooting in my black powder revolvers because I much prefer black powder with them.

    I was told Hogden will be releasing a new Tripple 7 in the future that is much better for 45 Colt cowboy shooting. Looking forward to it.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page