Tucson Arizona Gun Show observations.

[Lennyjoe]

All,

Just wanted to pass on some views on what I seen this weekend at the Tucson gun show I went to on Saturday.

First off, it was a good thing that we purchased tickets online. When we got there, about 1.5 hours before the show opened, there were 2 lines. The line we were in, tickets on hand, had about 150 people ahead of us. The second line, ticket purchasers grew as time went on and when they finally started selling tickets around 0800, I would estimate about 400 people in line. ONce they purchased their ticket, they got into line 1, which by then had grown to about 350 people.

It was amazing to see how many people were waiting to get in when it opened. A rough estimate would be around 1000 people or more. The line was huge and the traffic was backed up from others waiting to get in to park.

So the doors opened at 0900 and about 95% of the people in line went direct to the ammo counter. They had 6 lanes opened and every one was full. Being #150 or so in line at the opening, we ended up around #20 in line for ammo. It took me an hour and a half to finally get to the counter to place my order.

Prices for ammo wasn't extremely outragous given the current market. I paid $139 for 500 rounds of Wolf Classic 7.62x39, $3.50 per box of Winchester 00 buckshot and $34.95 per thousand of Winchester large rifle primers. They had plenty of ammo and it was going fast. Other prices I seen were $135 for 500 rounds of reloaded 55 gr .223 bullets and there were hardly any .22 long rifle ammo left. Mostly Mexican made long rifle and they would only sell 250 per person.

Outside of the primers, I seen very little reloading gear at all. A powder guy that normally has a lot of powder at high prices wasn't even there. Rumor had it, he had nothing to sell.

The best deal I got yesterday was a DPMS stripped lower receiver for $149 and a DPMS lower parts kit for $60 to which I got 1 each. Thought about getting more but didn't need them as this finishes my 300 AAC Blackout rifle. Didn't want to horde any more. They also had RR stripped lowers for $159 and RR LPK for $75ish. The place selling the lowers were going out of business and by they way they looked, their inventory wasn't going to last that long, especially at those prices, given today's market.

Other observations....found some .223 GI mags for $20 each and they sold all 200 in about 45 minutes. Magpul were up in the $30's and any full built AR's were over $1000. I even seen 9MM Winchester White Box 100 round boxes going for $50....

So, the biggest seller was ammo. Everyone was taking what they could, wheeling it out on dolly's, travel bags and even wagons. It was a very busy morning and I'd bet the ammo is pretty much gone today. No need for me to go back today since I got pretty much what I wanted from there.

So there you go, the market is still in a panic for the most part and ammo is getting scarce. I hope things calm down soon but with the political crap going on, one only knows if it ever will.

V/R

 

[Sock Puppet]

Thanks for the update. Not really surprised by any of this.

 

[cheesebigot]

I was afraid that would be the case come Saturday morning, so I slept in and made my wife breakfast, then went to the park instead. Probably a less stressful use of my time and money.

Glad you were able to get what you needed - I wish I still had the patience to go.

 

[PavePusher]

I had a slightly different experience (my own fault, really). Here's the report I gave on another site last night:

I did not buy a ticket on-line. Big mistake.

Doors were to open at 0900. I got a slightly late start due to some piss-poor-planning and a minor mechanical issue. Arrived at the fairgrounds at approx 0900, line of cars was about 1/4 mile long. Got in, parked right up front (Yeah, motorcycles!)(parking lot was over 2/3rds full, I've only ever seen it maxed at 1/4 for any other gun show here)... and got in the line for tickets, approx. 250 yards long. This was, by everyones account, the longest line they've ever seen for one of these. Took about 15-20 minutes to get inside (0930) and.... get in line for the main ammo vendor. (They generally only have one main one.) My section of the line was about 80 yards long. Waited two hours and was only 2/3rds of the way there, easily another hour to wait and I had another appointment to get to and no way to call to postpone or cancel (no cell reception, and the guy doesn't have a cell phone). So I left.

Observations:
1. A few people were walking around selling ammo from carts. Don't know if they brought it in, or were first-in-line that morning. One was selling 100-rounds lots of 5.56 for... $100. That's right, $1 per round. I. Ain't. Kidding. And I think he got it, too.

2. Before I left, I went up to the head of the ammo line to check what they had. Looked like they were still fairly well stocked, had about 3 times the usual number of people working, and no-one was standing still.

3. Took a quick swing around to browse other items before I left. Magpul AR magazines for $30 and up. An "unissued" Yugo SKS for $500. Saiga AK, 7.62, $1200. S&W M&P15 .22 rifles, $500. Yowzer.

4. Most hand-gun, and bolt/lever/pump long-gun prices looked fairly normal.

5. The place was packed, nearly elbow-to-elbow. Busiest I've ever seen.

6. Sadly, I still can't afford Dawson knives... sigh.


On the way out, I bought raffle tickets for an Armscor-based 1911 and a set of 3 long-guns (7mm bolt-action, a Browning-copy O/U shottie and a Mossberg .17 HMR). The ticket line was down to 100 yards long.

Depending on what I get up to tonight, and how late it runs, I may try for an early ammo run tomorrow to see if there's anything left. (Ticket/hand stamp is good for both days, may as well get my $10-worth.) I need 5.56 and 7.62x39 for myself, looking for 9mm and .22LR for a friend in Phoenix. There's another show in Mesa next weekend, depending on how tomorrow goes, I'm considering a pre-dawn run up there with a folding chair, thermos of coffee and something to read.

My current advice for gun shows: If you want ammo, get in line an hour early (at least). If possible, buy your ticket on-line, so you won't have to wait in line to buy. If you're looking for anything other than ammo, go after 1200, the initial crowd may have a chance of tapering off by then.

Google map co-ordinates: 32.044546,-110.783118, then zoom in two clicks and center the arrow.

Ticket line started on the road, about 100 feet right of center of picture. Event building is the long one stretching north-south on the left. Entrance is where the road intersects it. Ammo vendor was on very north end of building. Ammo line started inside the door, forward two aisles, then turn north about 30 feet and wait.

I was parked south-east of the center-point, just to south of the V-shaped building.

 

[PavePusher]

I did go back this morning. Big contrast. I got there right before 0900. Only a single row of cars in the parking lot, only about half the length of the row was filled. No lines at ticket booth or door.

The line at the ammo counter was only 4 people deep, had to wait about 10-15 minutes. Sadly, my turn took less than 30 seconds.

"Got any FMJ .45 ACP, 9mm, 5.56 or 7.62x39, or .22 LR?"

"Sorry, all sold out."

"O.K., thanks. Have a good day."



Spent about 45 minutes wandering the aisles looking for SKS mags (none available) and pricing AR mags (everything seemed to be 30-50% over normal). AK rifles averaging $1000. AR's seemed to start at $1000 and go up, rapidly.

Still can't afford Dawson knives...

The few people that had 5.56 ammo were selling at $1/round and higher. Wolf 7.62 was the same.

Headed out, got some more raffle tickets for another 1911 and a Taurus .454, also got one for the Harley-Davidson raffle.

Crossroads goes to Mesa next weekend, I probably have to work, but if not might be going up Saturday morning at oh-gawd-hundred to be towards the head of the ammo line.

Bugger.

 

[AlexanderA]

I don't understand all the panic buying and hoarding of ammo, since there are no serious legislative proposals that would restrict it. Why are people buying now at peak prices? There's going to be a glut on the market in a few months.

 

[oldbear]

don't understand all the panic buying and hoarding of ammo, since there are no serious legislative proposals that would restrict it. Why are people buying now at peak prices? There's going to be a glut on the market in a few months.

The only thing I can think of is the sheep mentality, I.e. everyone else is buying ammo so I better get stocked up myself. People are paying premium prices now, as they are afraid that the price will go up next week, or there will be no ammo for sale for any price.

Unless the Congress and Senate refuse to even consider any new firearms restrictions the panic of 2013 will take longer than a few months to slow down.

I have a friend who runs a Commercial reloading business, they have stopped producing anything but .223 ammo. They are currently producing 75,000 rounds a week and they are unable to keep up with demand.

 

[NMPOPS]

Glad I have enough ammo for now. I can always use more though. I have plenty of reloading components except for primers, and they are hard to come by.

 

[Dysfunctional Individual]

Why are people buying now at peak prices?

It's simple FUD, much like around election time in 2008 and 2012. It's truly a form of wealth redistribution, moving vast sums of money into the pockets of those who can recognize and capitalize on the situation. Demand and prices may well increase even further because many gun and ammo sellers will be able to retire rich early. It's of no consequence that any serious new gun-control measures will fail or that prices will soon be reverting to historical norms as the hype dies down.

 

[jim243]

There's going to be a glut on the market in a few months.

No there is not, the government is buying up all available ammo.

Jim

 

[Old Dog]

The only thing I can think of is the sheep mentality, I.e. everyone else is buying ammo so I better get stocked up myself. People are paying premium prices now, as they are afraid that the price will go up next week, or there will be no ammo for sale for any price.

Funny, that's what I've been thinking since the election, yet there's still this little voice in the back of my head that tells me to purchase any ammo I see that's not marked up too outrageously over the pre-panic prices ...

No there is not, the government is buying up all available ammo

ah, NO. The government isn't buying the ammo that's headed for the civilian market (I know this as I work for a government agency -- our orders are consistent with what we always order). Take off the tinfoil hat!

 

[Old Fuff]

According to the CEO at Olin/Winchester, their commercial order backlog exceedes the U.S. military services and law enforcement agencies orders, combined.

 

[Ignition Override]

Old Fuff: What the CEO said is probably true, but many other spokesmen might just say whatever keeps the buying fever hot, in order to cash in even sooner.

 

[sleepyone]

Your posts says "gun counter" as if there was only a single location/vendor selling ammo. Are there multiple vendors and they all have to be located in a central location? Our gun shows have ammo vendors scattered all over the convention center with all the other vendors.

 

[OilyPablo]

95% of the people in line went direct to the ammo counter.

Also curious about this. Is there just one seller? Is the show like a store?

At our WAC show, we do have one big ammo seller (SAA). Then a bunch of small guys. We used to have two local ammo companies. Oddly I have not seen them since the madness.

 

[country_guy]

Wish we had those kind of prices back out east here. I live in central PA but with my job I get all over PA, NY & NJ. Those last 2 communist states are rediculous. In Jersey, non residents can not buy guns or even ammo, even as a resident you need a special Firearms Owner ID card plus all hollow point ammo is illegal. In NY most shops I stopped at up there have next to no ammo other than some hunting calibers and if they do when I was there about 5 weeks back Tula 7.62x39 was running $7 a box while it was still around $5 down here in PA.

Here in PA I've seen a wide gap in both prices and inventory. 2 Fridays ago I picked up a plastic ammo can of factory reload 55gr $99 for 200rds (limit 1); they also had 62gr 100rds for $99 (limit 1). I was like holy crap I can't believe I'm paying .50/ rd for AR ammo. Hornady critical defense 00 buck was $11 for 10rds. They had about 100 Magpul 30 rd mags (no window) for $25 ea (limit 2). They had pistol ammo but to be honest I don't recall the price; I think my mind has blocked it to maintain my sanity...

They just got in a shipment of guns that day and about as fast as they went on the rack people were picking them up. Had some AR's of various brands but lowest price I saw was around 1300 on up and many were of higher quality brands pushing way over 2500-3000. No AK's to be had nor AK ammo or mags. I've been wanting an M1A and they had 2 standards but price start at 2300 and on up. This place usually has like 3 cars in the lot, that day I pulled in and it was jammed with at least 20, people were waiting on others to back out so they could park.

3 weeks back I stopped at a shop in central PA that claims to be the largest gun shop in the state and I can believe they are. This is close to where I grew up so used to come here often, they have a huge selection but have never been known for their prices or customer service. They had some AR's starting around $1,300 for a base model bushmaster and going up to around $2,200. 5.56 ammo started at $12/ 20rd bx with some as high as $18 and there was no bulk ammo available. had some GI mags they were asking $40 ea. No AK's or mags and Tula 20 rd bx was $9.99. Talk about price gouging.

 

[Old Fuff]

What the CEO said is probably true, but many other spokesmen might just say whatever keeps the buying fever hot, in order to cash in even sooner.

They don't have to say anything to "keep the buying fever hot," and industry sources are all saying the same thing. Even the small outfits that specialize on ammunition made from once fired brass are saying the same thing - were going as fast as we can, but hopelessly backordered. All of the ammunition makers are making shipments to distributors and retailers, but as quickly as the popular stuff arrives it's snapped up.

 

[BSA1]

The only thing I can think of is the sheep mentality, I.e. everyone else is buying ammo so I better get stocked up myself. People are paying premium prices now, as they are afraid that the price will go up next week, or there will be no ammo for sale for any price.

Shelves remain bare of common calibers here although I have noticed a couple of interesting things when I was at Cabelas last week. Premium, higher priced ammo remains on the shelves and they had a large supply of Hornady Critical Defense in 38 Special for around $20.00 a box.

Of course since the American Caesar Obama has approved double barrel shotguns for the masses shotgun shells might be the best buy.

It's of no consequence that any serious new gun-control measures will fail or that prices will soon be reverting to historical norms as the hype dies down.

Really? You seem very well informed to make a blanket statement like that. Are you referring to gun-control laws on the Federal or State or Local level?

I suppose the Republicans won’t cave in again like they did on the 1994 Assault Weapon ban.

The government isn't buying the ammo that's headed for the civilian market (I know this as I work for a government agency -- our orders are consistent with what we always order). Take off the tinfoil hat!

Well you have to give them credit for trying. But they do need some money left over for the 2,700 Mine Resistant Armor Protected Vehicles (MRAP) the Department of Homeland Security is buying. But hauling 1.6 billion stockpiled ammunition does need a lot of transport vehicles.

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/201...o-go-with-their-1-6-billion-bullet-stockpile/

 

[Newcatwalt]

I'm not surprised by the panic buying for ammo. It's a no lose situation if you can buy or trade for ammo at a reasonable price. The price of ammo is always going up so you'll most always at least get your money back. And, if it doesn't go up you'll have something to shoot.

Another reason ammo is going up is not because it might be banned but because it might be taxed. In my supossedly pro-gun state of Nevada we have a very influencial Democrat in the state senate getting ready to introduce a $25/gun and a $.02/round of ammo tax to be applied toward mental health costs. Imagine what a brick of .22 LR will now cost, if you can even find it. It's been reported this POS is a gun owner and CCW carrier. Personally, I find it hard to believe any self respecting gun owner would be in favor of this tax or equating gun ownership with mental health.

I truy fear for the future of this country and my state. In Nevada we are being overwhelmed by Californians fleeing their state and bringing their nanny state beliefs with them. God help us!

 

[PavePusher]

Your posts says "gun counter" as if there was only a single location/vendor selling ammo. Are there multiple vendors and they all have to be located in a central location? Our gun shows have ammo vendors scattered all over the convention center with all the other vendors.

The Tuscon show had one main vendor at one end, and a much smaller outfit at the other end. I spoke with the small-one folks Sunday, they said they were sold out by noon on Saturday. They were only still there to take orders for deliveries.

 

[PavePusher]

Also curious about this. Is there just one seller? Is the show like a store?

At our WAC show, we do have one big ammo seller (SAA). Then a bunch of small guys. We used to have two local ammo companies. Oddly I have not seen them since the madness.

The Tuscon show had one main vendor at one end, and a much smaller outfit at the other end. I spoke with the small-one folks Sunday, they said they were sold out by noon on Saturday. They were only still there to take orders for deliveries.

I can't for the life of me remember the names of the companies now.

They usually only have these two vendors selling bulk. Wish they'd get some more, they've sold out pretty much every show I've been to since I moved here in '07. Just the last year that they go through all the most popular calibers in the first day, IIRC.

 

[Batty67]

Yes. I pretty much check W-mart and Dick's regularly (once or twice a week), I will buy 22LR, 9mm, or 45ACP at close to normal prices to my limit. So, I'm getting 3 boxes of ammo per week, on average. I figure prices won't go down, and I can always shoot it. I also have no issue shelling out $30-50 weekly. I am skipping bulk purchases on the various websites, as a $50 charge to W-mart goes under the radar with my wife, $250 to Cabelas (etc.) does not...

 

[Lennyjoe]

PavePusher summed it up. The main one had a lot of ammo at the beginning. The folks on the other end sell reloaded ammo. Back in Dec I purchased 500 rounds of 180 gr .40 cal for $125. Have no idea what they were charging cause by the time I got there, it was pretty much gone.