Tumbler questions

[MrSpiffy]

I'm just starting to get into reloading, and I'm seeing a lot of information about tumblers. Being an engineer, I really like the idea of a wet rotary tumbler instead of a vibratory dry tumbler. It seems that they tend to clean brass better, and are dust-free (which is a huge plus, to me). I have no qualms drying media or brass, so that's the way I'm leaning.

However, I already shelled out a lot for my other reloading gear. Are there any good, inexpensive tumblers to start out with?

I saw HF has some smaller ones, are they any decent? There's also the Dura-Bull from Rio Grande. Does anyone have experience with that brand of tumbler?

 

[Blue68f100]

The FA tumbler kit can be had when on sale for around $150. You can use a wet cleaning solution in a 5gal bucket without using the pins. Takes about 10 min, then you need to neutralize and rinse.

 

[NeuseRvrRat]

The Frankford Arsenal rotary tumbler (FART) is a good deal considering that it comes with the pins. If it's out of your budget, I would suggest just reloading without a tumbler until you can afford it. Case cleaning is optional as long as your not trying to reload some brass you scraped out of a mudhole or something.

 

[MrSpiffy]

Thanks guys, I might just try to do a simple hand cleaning. I know the brass casings don't need to be shiny, but clean and free of soot and carbon build-up would be nice.

I'll see if I can locate a hand cleaning procedure.

 

[VThillman]

When I started reloading again after a long hiatus, I bought a Frankford Arsenal Quick-N-EZ tumbler, mostly because it was cheap. It's worked OK for about three years now. Not much dust gets in the air because I don't dump the media, just dig out the cases by hand. hey, I'm a tough guy.

 

[jonb32248]

Don't waste your money. It doesn't make them shoot any better just shinny.

 

[Shaq]

I've never understood the need for wet tumblers. I use Dillon & Remington tumblers, corn cob media & a capful of Berry's Brass Bright. Cases come out like new gold after two hours.

 

[mdi]

If you only need to do a few cases, 50 or so 30-06 size, the Harbor freight small rotary willl wet tumble just fine. If you get the dual drum you can run 100 cases easy. I got ny first HF rotary tumbler mebbe 25 years ago and it worked fine (mostly dry tumbling) 'till I "improved" it. I now have a HF dual drum size I use with a custom drum, which will hold 200, 38 Special cases or an easy 100, 30-06...

 

[otisrush]

I've been loading for about 3 years - and made the switch from a dry vibratory tumbler to wet tumbling about 4 months ago.

First....re motivation for doing so: I just liked the idea of having really shiny brass. Additionally - I think there is additional peace of mind by having cleaned primer pockets. I like that better than scraping out primer pockets with a stiff brush. (I know some will say primer pockets don't need cleaning. That's cool. But I can't not clean them. So if I'm going to do it - I prefer doing it by wet tumbling.) Lastly, I think an additional benefit of wet tumbling is that you can see inside the case MUCH more clearly. So when I'm doing case inspection, or double-checking powder levels of charged cases, etc. I much prefer having a shiny case interior than looking into a blackened case. The visibility is much much improved.

Second.....I find the process fun, just like I find loading fun. It's another way to spent time dinking around in my loading area.

Lastly.....I wanted to do it on a budget. So I bought the dual-drum HF tumbler. It has worked fine. Be EXTREMELY stingy if you oil the bearings (which the manual tells you to do). I had an issue with too much oil migrating down the rotating rods and underneath the rubber tubing which grips the drums. Big hassle. I've also found that I think it's happier when it is loaded lightly. I tend to do frequent small batches. Get one of those, along with HF's $25 food dehydrator to dry the brass - and you've got a very good setup, IMHO.

The FART setup looks great. It was recently on sale for something like $100. If I had to do it again I might do that.

OR

 

[rfwobbly]

Being an engineer, I really like the idea of a wet rotary tumbler instead of a vibratory dry tumbler. It seems that they tend to clean brass better, and are dust-free (which is a huge plus, to me).

► Then, as an engineer, you understand that cleaner brass means the exact same "hazardous" byproduct is being created. Except now the byproduct is in a highly concentrated liquid form, which, is generally harder to handle in a home setting. Will you pour this liquid down the drain or onto your backyard ? If down the drain, do you have a utility sink or will you use the wife's kitchen sink ? And where and how will you contain the splashing while you reclaim the stainless pins from the waste liquid ? Aren't you running the risk of contaminating your garage or basement with liquid that will someday dry up and make the very same dust you are trying to avoid ?

Granted, the liquid cleaning is about 10% better in final appearance, but when you factor in the extra equipment and chemicals required, the extra process steps, the extra manual labor involved, etc, etc, it's just hard for me to justify the small improvement when compared to the ease corn cob and NuFinish.

► As an engineer, wouldn't you naturally prefer improved process and product, over enhanced aesthetics ? Especially if the cost was equal or lower ? Well it just so happens that the cost differential between a Dillon 550B and a Dillon XL650 is at, or less than, some of the numbers bandied about in the previous replies !!

Wouldn't you be far better off simply spending $10 learning how to control the dust generated in dry tumbling, and the balance on improved dies and better reloading presses ?
.

 

[leadchucker]

I made this tumbler mostly out of scrap box parts. IDK how well it would work with rifle brass, but it does a great job on my pistol brass.
Toss five to ten pounds of deprimed brass in with a couple of pounds of stainless steel pins, a half teaspoon of lemi-shine or citric acid, a TINY squirt of dishwashing soap, and a quart or two of water.
Two hours in the tumbler will make even the dirtiest, most tarnished brass look new.
Use a separator to separate the pins from the brass, and then lay it out on a towel overnight to dry.
It's a whole lot easier to see defects on clean brass. Clean brass is easier to size. Clean brass is easier on my dies. There's no doubt about proper bullet fit/friction. It gets the primer pockets shiny clean, a vibrator tumbler won't do that. It removes tarnish, a vibrator tumbler won't do that. Oh, yeah, it looks great too.
I will never go back to vibrator cleaning.

 

[GBExpat]

For decades I hand-washed cases by agitating them in hot water with a bit of dishwashing detergent (later, Dawn). After multiple uses they became quite ugly, but worked fine.

Then I discovered that by adding a bit of phosphoric or citric acid to the washwater I could brighten them quite a bit with no extra effort.

Then I finally broke down and bought my first vibratory case cleaner which I used after pre-cleaning & drying and the cases became cleaner/brighter still.

A couple of years ago I bought a F.A.R.T and quickly learned to replace the Dawn with ArmorAll Wash&Wax and my cases come out looking like new, more resistant to tarnishing and easier moving in the sizing die (the last 2 thanks to the AAW&W).

I, for one, do not care if:

It doesn't make them shoot any better just shinny.

... I really like the way they look when they are "shinny".

 

[Dudedog]

I have a Frandford Dry tumbler and a Lyman wet tumbler. The wet process is more of a pain but does a much better job. Clean cases may not shoot any better but they are nicer to look at
Before I had a tumbler I soaked case in a 5 gallon plastic bucket with dish washing soap and rust remover. (phosphoric acid)
The citric acid I use in my wet tumbler would work in the bucket as well. (available at Wally World by the canning stuff)
I just let the cases soak for about week and would swish them around every now and then. Brass wasn't as super shiny but seemed to shoot fine.

 

[mdi]

FWIW; tumbling/cleaning cases is prolly the most talked about, but least important part of reloading and everyone has the "best" method. I remember way back I was hanging out at a local police range. I noticed two old fellers shooting 1911s, a lot. I went closer and noticed their targets, all with a few magazines full in them were one hole about 2"-3" (range was 50'), and all their ammo was brown! They were reloaders that used a lot of ammo, but that was before tumbling to a virgin looking shine on the brass was "necessary". They weren't trying to impress anyone and their targets spoke for themselves...

 

[MrSpiffy]

@rfwobbly, I get your points. But, I'd rather have lead contained within a liquid that I can control where it goes, instead of having dry lead dust that can float around my home. While the lead can be freed from the liquid once it dries, at least I can be careful and make sure it goes down the drain. And I do have a drain in the basement I can use. I'm sure my wife would hate it if I used our kitchen sink to dump contaminated water.

@leadchucker, that's a nice-looking DIY setup you have there. That's what I've been considering doing, just making my own. I could easily build a frame and get the parts, I'm just trying to figure out where to find a cheap electric motor for this project. And I've seen the Lemi-Shine suggested a LOT. Definitely going to give that a try, once I have a tumbler.

@GBExpat, I'm with you. Nice, shiny cases look great! If I'm going to go through all this trouble to reload my own rounds, why not take the small extra step to make them look good, too?

@mdi, I totally get that shiny brass isn't necessary. I have no tumbler, for now, so I'm just going ahead with loading my first cases anyway since I know they'll work just fine. But, a tumbler also takes some of the elbow grease out of the process. I still have to rinse cases anyway, but there's less hand cleaning to do, it can remove case lube, it helps to reveal case defects by removing tarnish, and helps clean out primer pockets. I see a number of benefits to wet tumbling, despite the extra effort involved.

 

[Ghost In The Fog]

I received the F.A.R.T. from Brown Santa and I will never go back to dry media vibrating.
If you want to see sample results of what wet tumbling can do, take a OJ bottle and fill it about 50 to 60% full of dirty, nasty brass and add one empty case (9MM for me) of Lemmeshine and a good squirt of dish soap. Fill with hot tap water and shake for 30 seconds. Open the bottle, rinse with clean water and fill again. Shake for 30 seconds. Wait for about 30 minutes and shake again. Drain and be amazed at how well this works.
I did the OJ bottle thing and then when the cases were dry, I put them in the dry vibrator with Nu Finish for about 20 minutes.
The F.A.R.T. is like this, but on steroids. I use 4 cap fulls of the FA liquid cleaner and 2 cap fulls of Armor All Wash and Wax for 6 to 7 pounds of de-primed, filthy, nasty range brass. I am so glad I have switched to this method. Does it really matter in the big scheme of things? Probably not, but I like shiny, clean brass. I even re-cleaned all of my brass that was previously cleaned by the OJ bottle and dry media cleaning method. It is noticeably cleaner.
I very much enjoy all aspects of reloading and overdo some things, but if you like spotless and shiny, this is the way to go.
Now I have 32 pounds of sparkling clean brass to fill.

 

[MrSpiffy]

@Ghost In The Fog, that's purty right there! So sparkly!

I'm considering the DIY route... we'll see how that goes.

 

[Axis II]

you guys talked me into it. I will be getting a HF rotory 2 drum tumbler with 1lbs of stainless media for $14. videos and reviews say 1lbs will do both drums and only runs an hour or so. those cases come out like brand new and i cant believe the nasty water that comes out with it.

 

[MrSpiffy]

you guys talked me into it. I will be getting a HF rotory 2 drum tumbler with 1lbs of stainless media for $14. videos and reviews say 1lbs will do both drums and only runs an hour or so. those cases come out like brand new and i cant believe the nasty water that comes out with it.

For $14? Is it on sale this week?

 

[Ghost In The Fog]

@MrSpiffy and everyone else, the one thing that really stands out to me is that it is much easier to see very small flaws with cases- ranging from small scratches to dents that I really didn't pick up on before. Many of which I probably wouldn't have caught at all.
Also- I am going to start a new thread very soon that I would like others to be aware of as well as finding out more information about.
After I re-cleaned the brass that was previously cleaned by the OJ bottle and dry media method and had all of the brass spread out on a towel to dry I noticed several really badly discolored pieces. I ran my magnet over all of the brass to pick up any stainless steel pins that might be left behind and these discolored pieces were picked up by the magnet. NOT BRASS and not noticeable by the color before wet tumbling.
I will post pictures with head stamp etc over tonight or tomorrow.
I have checked all of my clean brass with the magnet but now I have to check all of my loaded brass to make sure I don't have any of these steel cases loaded. Grrrrr.

 

[Axis II]

For $14? Is it on sale this week?

it was on amazon $14-lbs

 

[Axis II]

@MrSpiffy and everyone else, the one thing that really stands out to me is that it is much easier to see very small flaws with cases- ranging from small scratches to dents that I really didn't pick up on before. Many of which I probably wouldn't have caught at all.
Also- I am going to start a new thread very soon that I would like others to be aware of as well as finding out more information about.
After I re-cleaned the brass that was previously cleaned by the OJ bottle and dry media method and had all of the brass spread out on a towel to dry I noticed several really badly discolored pieces. I ran my magnet over all of the brass to pick up any stainless steel pins that might be left behind and these discolored pieces were picked up by the magnet. NOT BRASS and not noticeable by the color before wet tumbling.
I will post pictures with head stamp etc over tonight or tomorrow.
I have checked all of my clean brass with the magnet but now I have to check all of my loaded brass to make sure I don't have any of these steel cases loaded. Grrrrr.

might have ran into some steel cases. i scrounge the range buckets at my club and seen some steel cases that looked like really nasty crappy brass until i picked them up and looked closely and they were some sort of mil surplus steel cases that had a brass tint to them. almost like a mosin nagant round or something.

 

[Cowhide Cliff]

I have a thumblers tumbler and one of the little two drum tumblers from HF. Both work well and cant really tell the difference. What I like about the little HF tumbler is I can have small amounts of two different kinds of brass and clean them at the same time without them getting stuck inside one another. I'm pretty sure I have one pound of pins in each drum though. I used a refresser pin kit from Thumblers tumblers for the pins that are in my HF unit.

 

[Nature Boy]

Wet tumbling seems to play to the anal nature of those attracted to the reloading hobby. So far I'm resisting the urge......but it's not easy.

I had a choice between a FART or an annealer. I went with the annealer.

In the mean time, when I want my brass extra shinny I just let it run overnight in the Dillon vibratory with corn cob and a dab of NuFinish

 

[Axis II]

other than super shiny in the wet tumbler isn't it better to get all the build up out of the cases using the wet vs the dry? i let my corn cob run for like 8hrs and all it did was give me shine but not clean inside or out for some range pickups.