Tuner: Please expand on Jordan Method

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My dad has told me stories of men getting killed in Vietnam because they were fumbling their empty magazines back into their belt pouches. He said it took him a few months of concentrated effort under fire to Unlearn that habit. The Marines apparently train you to hold onto your magazines during reloading.
I watched my brother shooting my AR while he was getting ready for his USMC Reserve rifle quals earlier this year. He would do the same thing, unload the mag, and go to put it in his belt pouch. It really threw him off not having all the proper gear ready.

I can relate many flying stories of Training kicking in: Sometimes good, sometimes not so good. One time I was practicing emergency procedures and actually flipped the mags off, killing the engine. Whoops.

Under stress you will function how you were trained, good or bad.
 
Tuner, Dave, and others: without changing the thread, can i get names of good ccw holsters for my 1911? ron
 
Gunleather

Howdy Ron,


Notta problemo...The thread's already been 'jacked.:D

Do a search on names like Alessi, Jackass, Milt Sparks
(I like the Sparks Summer Special IWB) Bianchi, Safariland,
Hume, Tom Threepersons...or just do a general search on
"Gunleather" to get to some websites.

The single best piece of advice that I can give is to resist buying something because it's cheap. You get what you pay for, and good gunleather is expensive. I much prefer horsehide to dead cow skin, and generally avoid the synthetics. The exception is Bianchi's UM-84 nylon holster, but that one isn't really a concealment rig, though it can be accessorized with the shoulder harness attachment. The UM-84 is a rugged field holster that comes with a removable flap that gives you good coverage in dirty environments and the option of taking it off if you feel the need for faster access. It's also a reversible rig that can be worn on the left or right side, and will accept the 1911 or the 92 Series Berettas...and probably several other makes and models that I haven't tried in it.

Luck!

Tuner
 
Bit late but just for my 2 cents...

Jordon style holster nowdays would make about any police Firearms instructor gasp in horror. Personally I'm pretty much with them at this point but...

Maybe we should not be so quick to condemn Jordons work. In HIS TIME when he designed it rules for shooting were way different than today. Back then weapon retention and the open trigger guard may not have been considered big issues. If you layed hands on a cop (or even ran away) it was often perfectly acceptable for said officer to shoot you in the face or back. Nowdays shooting someone because they took a punch at you, and you both ended up rolling around on the ground with them is most often (depending on a number of factors) NOT justified grounds to open fire.

In short todays cops (and even to some extent CC holders) are often expected to do a lot more running, wrestling and subdueing than shooting. If Jordon had to operate under such conditions I think he may have made a few design changes...

JMHO
 
Blueduck is right. I do not "Condem" any other persons Job or how they do it. I do what works for me. I use Gordon Davis Gunleather that is custom made for me, sometimes with my Logo on it, and sometimes not. He also makes my CASS gunleather and I have four gunbelts and five holsters for that. Tuner is right on when he advises not to get cheap gunleather for an $800.00-1000.00 gun. I like the smell of gunleather and I like the way it works. I thank these cows for giving their life so that I can wear part of them on my hip. His phone number is 1-928-637-0111. Tell him the Eagle sent you. You will get the Best. He has been at this for almost 40 years and everybody copies his stuff. He also has a web site.
 
I carried a Model 19 as a deputy sheriff and never had to fire a shot. I drew once, showed the gun once, and told the person I was armed once. But I did practice the Jordan technique and had films showing my draw with the hammer coming back before the gun was out of the holster. I never shot myself in the foot or put a bullet anywhere other than on the target. I figured that if I was in that mode, it was way too late to worry about not shooting, but I don't think the practice would have prevented me from drawing without shooting. It is a matter of situation assessment, something I think a LEO had better be pretty good at or he will be in trouble sooner rather than later.

I did change when I began to carry a Bucheimer Federal Man holster, which has a paddle snap and almost requires dropping the hand on the gun, rather than scooping it up, but I always drew with finger on the trigger and had full trigger control from the time I touched the gun.

I do wonder a bit about the modern training which says that before firing, you have to have an approved grip, the finger alongside the trigger but not touching the trigger, sights perfectly aligned, feet properly placed, body at precisely the right angle, proper cap worn at the correct angle, politically correct brand of shooting glasses, right degree of hearing protection, jacket logo properly displayed for the camera, etc., etc. And of course the gunzine pics always show the shooter standing upright, presenting a perfect target. Why do I get the feeling that these guys are not serious?

Jim
 
Words of Wisdom

Mr. Keenan said:

I figured that if I was in that mode, it was way too late to worry about not shooting, but I don't think the practice would have prevented me from drawing without shooting.

Amen.
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And:

but I always drew with finger on the trigger and had full trigger control from the time I touched the gun.

Absolutely. The Jordan Move was developed with and for a double-action revolver. The problems start when it's transcribed to a single-action
autopistol, and requires some modification to the pure technique in order
to maintain trigger control and to prevent shooting oneself in the foot or leg. If anything, it requires even more perfect timing to execute without
a self-shooting or shooting too soon. It's also adviseable to bring a SA
autopistol to shoulder level rather than firing from the hip as with the revolver. (Just my personal assessment) It's still very fast and smooth,
but gives you a tick longer to decide to stand down...and makes you a
little more likely to put the first round on target.
________________________

And:


camera, etc., etc. And of course the gunzine pics always show the shooter standing upright, presenting a perfect target. Why do I get the feeling that these guys are not serious?

Oh yeah...I couldn't have said it better. That statement lands
squarely on the bullseye. To wit: Repetition is very likely
to cause us to become programmed to repeat it under the stress
of a real situation. If we normally stand stock still, draw and fire, and
return the gun to low/ready on the range...we just might do that when the target is trying to kill us. For those who haven't actually seen it happen, it's hard to understand how it can happen...but it can and it does.

Be careful of the habits that you fall into...and train/practice the way you'll need to fight.

Good thread.
 
Holster Question

Brian asked:

My big question is: Holster design, do you have a thumb strap on either a revo or semi holster and does one want a covered trigger or not?
__________________________

No thumb strap/break for general concealed carry. In the great outdoors,
I like a simple strap. A strap can be manipulated faster than a thumb break in an emergency. If I have a rifle and carry the sidearm as a secondary weapon in the boonies, I don't have a problem with a full flap holster like
the original US holster or the Bianchi UM-84.

Covered trigger makes no difference. Would rather have it as not, and I've
modified the presentation/draw to allow for it, and it keeps my finger off the trigger with a cocked 1911 until the muzzle is angled in front of my feet.
Since I wipe the safety as the gun clears the leather, it's an added measure
for not shootin' my foot if I go for the gun in a rush....which would be a way bad thang...:uhoh: :D

Jordan's technique required an open trigger because part of the stroke entailed getting the firing grip on the gun as soon as possible...which included getting his finger on the trigger before the gun cleared leather.
As noted...It's a dangerous sequence, and must be practiced religiously
on an almost daily basis.
 
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