Twist Rate: How Does It Improve Performance In the Hunting Fields?

[old heeler]

That bullet doesn't work in a 1:10". Nice try though - the .270 almost had one single decent bullet, but the twist rate screws them again. It's as if maybe they made a mistake or something...

You hate 270 so why keep post about it.

 

[Llama Bob]

You hate 270 so why keep post about it.

Because it's time to put a fork in the .270 - it's done. In the same way we don't hunt with .30-40 Krag or .32 Winchester Special any more (or at least don't recommend new rifles) and for very good reason, it's time to relegate the .270 to the history books.

 

[TN Outlaw]

So the reason you keep doing what your doing is to tell all these people the rifle/cartridge that they use and have used for years and that has been one of THE most highly regarded rounds for near a century for performing exactly how it was intended with the bullet weights needed for the jobs it was made for, is junk.

That they are fools and know nothing of ballistics and the actual experience they have with their 270 Win is wrong, it was all a dream or something and some dude with a Llama as his avatar on some forum knows best.

Soooo, lecture, speak down to them, call them fools, and then set them straight. On one the top performing and top selling cartridges OF ALL TIME?

.........and we are fools?

Good luck with that.

 

[sage5907]

Because it's time to put a fork in the .270 - it's done. In the same way we don't hunt with .30-40 Krag or .32 Winchester Special any more (or at least don't recommend new rifles) and for very good reason, it's time to relegate the .270 to the history books.

I think your focus is so narrow that you don't realize that not everyone wants to shoot long skinny bullets in fast twist rifles. If I want more power in a hunting rifle I go to a larger diameter bullet. This BS of shooting at game animals at 6 or 7 hundred yards is for TV shows and in many cases it's not very ethical. It's great to promote whatever you choose for target shooting but as to hunting game animals you need to smarten up and join the real world.

 

[Garandimal]

Of course. Sectional density and weight retention are what get your bullet to the far side of an elk and leave an exit wound. The 160 .264 Weldcore will penetrate about 50% deeper due to higher SD and retained weight than the 150gr .277 Partition.

I sort of assumed everyone knows that. I'm pretty sure the family dog knows that.

"Truth is incontrovertible. Panic may resent it. Ignorance may deride it. Malice may distort it. But there it is"
- Winston Churchill -

Heaver bullets, out of smaller cartridges, produce inferior ballistics to the lighter ones, out to ranges below hunting energy.

I agree and this is where OP's argument falls apart. In the 60s and 70s elk bullets for a 270 were 150gr flat based. And IF you believe that the 270 is good enough for 300 yard elk in 1969 then obviously a 6.5 Creed with a 143 ELDX should be equally adequate since @ 300 yards is got more retained velocity, more energy and more momentum than a flat based 150gr 270 would.

The 6.5 CM/ 143 ELD-X starts out 200 fps slower, catch the .270/ 150 gr. NP at 400 yds, and matches energy at 500 yds.

How much game is shot > to 300 yards?




GR

 

[Garandimal]

Because it's time to put a fork in the .270 - it's done. In the same way we don't hunt with .30-40 Krag or .32 Winchester Special any more (or at least don't recommend new rifles) and for very good reason, it's time to relegate the .270 to the history books.

"Truth is incontrovertible. Panic may resent it. Ignorance may deride it. Malice may distort it. But there it is"
- Winston Churchill -

"Through our guided hunting services, I am able to gain a great deal of statistics. Without a doubt, the .270 Winchester has proven to be the most effective cartridge carried by clients in comparison to other non magnum, small bore cartridges."
- Terminal Ballistics Research -

Don't forget your cork, Ruprick.

​

GR

 

[mavracer]

How much game is shot > to 300 yards?

Is there any cartridge that has enough power at 300 yards and it doesn't closer?

 

[Elkins45]

Speaking of corks, it’s about time somebody stuck one in this thread.

 

[Garandimal]

Is there any cartridge that has enough power at 300 yards and it doesn't closer?

The heavy LR bullets make their mark by not gaining energy, but rather losing what little energy they have... less quickly.

Sure, they are great performers - at ranges where they, and higher velocity/ higher drag bullets, have lost enough energy to be irresponsible hunting rounds.

And inside of that, increasing as you close the range, they are increasingly inferior.




GR

 

[LoonWulf]

Sure, they are great performers - at ranges where they, and higher velocity/ higher drag bullets, have lost enough energy to be irresponsible hunting rounds.

I don't usually address these sentiments, as they are a personal opinion.
And I feel your entitled to your own, but that's what it is, an opinion.

But irresponsible for whom?
You?
Me?
The guy who shoots hundreds or thousands of rounds a year at ranges far exceeding what they will take a shot on game?

Long, heavy, bullets, not matter how blunt or pointy, still weigh the same and offer the same advantages over their lighter shorter counterparts.

If you shoot long pointy vld type 150 .277, as opposed to shorter, blunter, flat base 150 .277 at the same velocity, the long pointy will deliver more velocity, energy. AT ANY RANGE

There are literally NO downsides to shooting a sleeker bullet of the same weight at the same velocity. Except perhaps that flat base bullets tend to be a little more tolerant/easier to find accurate loads for.
At the same time the reduced bearing surface of the vlds can, tho not always, allow a higher velocity. So take your pick.

 

[Garandimal]

I don't usually address these sentiments, as they are a personal opinion.
And I feel your entitled to your own, but that's what it is, an opinion.

But irresponsible for whom?
You?
Me?
The guy who shoots hundreds or thousands of rounds a year at ranges far exceeding what they will take a shot on game?

Long, heavy, bullets, not matter how blunt or pointy, still weigh the same and offer the same advantages over their lighter shorter counterparts.

If you shoot long pointy vld type 150 .277, as opposed to shorter, blunter, flat base 150 .277 at the same velocity, the long pointy will deliver more velocity, energy. AT ANY RANGE

There are literally NO downsides to shooting a sleeker bullet of the same weight at the same velocity. Except perhaps that flat base bullets tend to be a little more tolerant/easier to find accurate loads for.
At the same time the reduced bearing surface of the vlds can, tho not always, allow a higher velocity. So take your pick.

Learned Opinion.

​

GR

 

[LoonWulf]

Learned Opinion.

​

GR

I respect Mr.Selby opinion, as much as I respect yours, and I don't disagree. The 6.5 Creedmoor and 143eldx, is not IN MY OPINION an acceptable 500yd elk cartridge, neither is the .270 Winchester and the 150NP, both are sub par 400yd elk cartridges.

A completely stable 150Accubond or similar would make me marginally more comfortable with a 400yd shot and the .270, but I still consider it unacceptable for 500yds

6.5Creedmoor, 143ELDX (the Accubond LR would be about the same, but since were picking on the eldx, there it is)

Range Velocity Energy Trajectory Come Up (MOA) Come Up (MILS) Wind Drift Wind Drift (MOA) Wind Drift (MILS)
0 2795 2480.0 -1.5 0.0 0.0 0 0 0
100 2649 2228.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0 0 0
200 2507 1996.0 -3.5 1.7 0.5 0 0 0
300 2370 1784.0 -12.5 4.0 1.2 0 0 0
400 2238 1590.0 -27.7 6.6 1.9 0 0 0
500 2109 1412.0 -49.8 9.5 2.8 0 0 0

.270Win 150gr NP, or Hornady interlock.

Range Velocity Energy Trajectory Come Up (MOA) Come Up (MILS) Wind Drift Wind Drift (MOA) Wind Drift (MILS)
0 2940 2879.0 -1.5 0.0 0.0 0 0 0
100 2739 2498.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0 0 0
200 2547 2160.0 -3.1 1.5 0.4 0 0 0
300 2362 1859.0 -11.7 3.7 1.1 0 0 0
400 2186 1591.0 -26.4 6.3 1.8 0 0 0
500 2017 1355.0 -48.5 9.3 2.7 0 0 0

.270 150 ABLR, from a 1-7 Twist

Range Velocity Energy Trajectory Come Up (MOA) Come Up (MILS) Wind Drift Wind Drift (MOA) Wind Drift (MILS)
0 2940 2879.0 -1.5 0.0 0.0 0 0 0
100 2775 2565.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0 0 0
200 2616 2279.0 -3.0 1.4 0.4 0 0 0
300 2463 2020.0 -11.1 3.5 1.0 0 0 0
400 2314 1784.0 -25.0 6.0 1.7 0 0 0
500 2171 1570.0 -45.4 8.7 2.5 0 0 0


.243 Winchester 103 ELDX

Range Velocity Energy Trajectory Come Up (MOA) Come Up (MILS) Wind Drift Wind Drift (MOA) Wind Drift (MILS)
0 3036 2108.0 -1.5 0.0 0.0 0 0 0
100 2849 1856.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0 0 0
200 2670 1630.0 -2.8 1.3 0.4 0 0 0
300 2498 1427.0 -10.5 3.3 1.0 0 0 0
400 2332 1243.0 -23.7 5.7 1.6 0 0 0
500 2172 1079.0 -43.4 8.3 2.4 0 0 0


I tossed the .243 in for comparison. A great many people consider it an unacceptable elk cartridge, so considering the energy numbers alone (which isnt not the whole story, but an easy metric to address) 200yds is about as far as the .270 and its NP beats it. The 6.5CM, isnt far behind.

Ive taken somewhere between 10 and 12 feral cows/bulls that weigh between 400-800lbs. Ive seen about twice that number taken.
Ive seen .300s fail to stop them, and .243s put them down with single shots. Ive even seen one big bull eat a .308, and 5 (I think ) rounds from my STW, and still be alive enough that I felt compelled to bleed it out.
Ive seen the .270 take two with 150ablrs, and ive taken one with a 143ELDx from my 6.5-284.

None of the shots were particularly far, 30-120yds, and the animals have similar builds to elk according to a friend who hunts elk on a regular basis.

I included this simply to address where MY OPINION, is coming from.

 

[mavracer]

And inside of that, increasing as you close the range, they are increasingly inferior.

Yep at least my dog doesn't say idiotic stuff.

I'm out

 

[Art Eatman]

Few threads are really useful after three pages.