two kidnapped in Iraq

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Sgt Stevo

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I read two of ours got nabbed on a checkpoint. This was always my worst nightmare over there.

Not me being nabbed. The kids that worked for me. Any info people get on this. Please post. This really upset me. thank you. stevo
 
I spoke to my son in Iraq about 2 hours ago. This happened just across the Euphrates river from his battalion's AO. He said they've been out continuously kicking doors and conducting raids for the 36 hours since this happened. They are back at the forward operating base to refit and rearm and are going back out. He told me and his wife (who along with the kids are staying with us while he's deployed) not to expect to hear from him for several days.

Our forces are pulling out all the stops to try to find and rescue these two soldiers.

This thread is off topic, but I'm going to leave it open and send it to him to share with his unit.

Jeff
 
Luck to your son Jeff, and luck to the two missing soldiers. May they come home safe and whole.

Biker
 
ROE...

There are a number of non-high road things that could probably be done to get the word out to these jihadis that the gloves will come all the way off if our guys are not returned forthwith. I seriously hope that some adaptable & flexible commanders over there are in fact doing just this, regardless of the politically inspired BS rules of engagement that our forces always seem to be hobbled & handicapped by.
 
Strength to your son, Jeff, and I hope the soldiers make it back to base safely. I saw an insurgent document while I was over there which detailed the bounty that would be paid to anyone handing a captured foreigner over to a specific insurgent-group.

Oh, yes - the bounty was highest for a US female soldier :fire:
 
This burns me up beyond words. Grind the hostage takers and those who shelter them into the ground - with our blessings and prayers.
 
These soldiers are in my thoughts and prayers. May God give them strength in thier hour of need.
 
I'm surprised this hasn't already happened in the past. I knew it was only a matter of time. Hopefully they get out. Anyone have a link to an article?

EDIT - Found it. Let's hope for the best.
 
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Somebody finances these dirtbags. Until the moneymen are found and executed, our soldiers will continue facing these risks. Killing somebody like Zarqawi is good, but what is more important is to identify and wipe out the sheikhs and imams that give the money through islamic charities. That will not be done by GIs. CIA has to get off their behinds, find the bastards, and disappear them.
 
OK, let me say a couple things here as a serving Army officer:

-from what I've read in news reports, there were some serious screw-ups in the engagement that allowed these two soldiers (101st Air Assault Division) to get captured. Somehow, three troops (the two who were captured and murdered and another who was killed in the initial engagement) in a Humvee were separated from the rest of their unit. This should not have happened. Generally the minimum grouping is at least two vehicles and at least 6 troops.

One account I read said that there were 3 vehicles and 9 troops manning the checkpoint. The terrorists attacked the checkpoint and retreated, luring 6 of the troops to give chase in two of the vehicles. The remaining three either stayed under orders or didn't get underway before they were attacked by a second group of terrorists.

If this story is true, it was a fairly well planned and executed attack on the terrorists part. On the flip side, it speaks to poor decision-making and execution on the part of our guys' squad leader, added to the fact that they had probably fallen into a pattern in how they responded to attacks on their checkpoints, which may have allowed the terrorists to plan and carry out their attack.

-Next, every soldier I've talked to who has been over there has been unanimous on the point that there is no way, short of physical incapacitation, that they would ever allow themselves to be captured, because you know how it's going to end. Keep firing until you're out of ammo, and then fix bayonets and/or use your rifle as a club. Dead fighting is better than getting your head sawed off on video.

I don't know exactly what happened with these soldiers, but I can only hope they were unconscious, if not mortally wounded, before the terrorists got them.

God's grace to them and their families, and His justice to their murderers.
 
I did not get how three troopers got left alone either. But things happen real fast.

Bad things happen faster. Easy to second guess.
 
the insurgents are getting better as time passes. They'll learn how the army protocols and procedures are like and they will start surveying and exploiting vunerabilities
 
If it did happen like the one unconfirmed report I cited said, I'd have to guess that that unit-maybe even just that squad (9 men is the standard rifle squad), because observant bad guys can make distinctions like that-fell into a pattern in how they responded to attacks against their checkpoints.

The bad guys then presented them with a certain situation, to cause our guys to respond in an expected way, which the BGs were then able to exploit.

Predictability in warfare is a very, very bad thing.

I read a story in the paper this morning that the Army is looking into exactly how those 3 guys were out alone.
 
Best wishes to family and friends

This really hit home hard. I grew up in the same town as one of the soldiers and personally knew him. Our small town has been giving a lot of support. Many people really started to show support when they found out it was one of our own that had been kidnapped. Best wishes to all the troops and personally to the Tucker Family and friends.
 
re:

I'm sickened beyond words. Kill an enemy, sure. That's war. Mutilation...
living or dead...is a travesty and an affront to all that is sacred. I've worked hard for a very long time not to hate...but when I hear of things like this, I feel myself slipping back into that void.

Pray God, that they were dead before they were butchered...Pray Almighty God.

Prayers for your son, Jeff.
 
langenotor said:
If it did happen like the one unconfirmed report I cited said, I'd have to guess that that unit-maybe even just that squad (9 men is the standard rifle squad), because observant bad guys can make distinctions like that-fell into a pattern in how they responded to attacks against their checkpoints.

The bad guys then presented them with a certain situation, to cause our guys to respond in an expected way, which the BGs were then able to exploit.

Predictability in warfare is a very, very bad thing.

I read a story in the paper this morning that the Army is looking into exactly how those 3 guys were out alone.
Click to expand...

Army personnals have to follow procedures, insurgents do not hav to. Thats the disadvantage the army currently hav i guess
 
William Lind and others would point to this as classic insurgent/Eastern tactics. Figure out a pattern and exploit it using a false retreat and a surprise attack.

I also couldn't figure out how they got surprised enough to actually surrender, knowing what everyone knows about what capture means. I'm afraid it's probably complacency because, after all, "the bad guys were running away".

I think the method to the torture madness may have been to try to drive the reaction force into committing crimes against the innocent populace out of vengeance, to create more bad will among the locals against our troops.

If the captured docs from the al-Zawiri raid are true, the insurgents need that in order to continue successfully; as the population may not be friendly toward Americans but seems to be swinging toward supporting their government.
 
This tactic goes at least as far back as the Scythians:
Feign an attack, retreat, then when the enemy gives chase and is disordered, the real attack begins.
Guaranteed, we'll learn from this one.

Biker
 
Biker,

You've got a higher opinion than I of our institutional military learning ability. :rolleyes:

We've had a couple hundred years experience as the US and (as you point out) several thousand as "the West" in getting beaten with this same exact tactic but we still (as a military culture) fall for it today. Maneuver warfare/4th generational warfare doctrine notwithstanding.

We aren't apparently (except perhaps on the unit level) teaching the kids on the ground this stuff, we weren't a few years back (before I got out) anyway. "Training to the manual" helps pass mob. tests and makes the Zeros look good on paper but it isn't necessarily conducive to keeping the kids alive and effective.

I assume the small unit leaders, as always, are doing their best to teach what really works.
 
My son is in Bagdad with the 101st and will be home in a couple weeks for mid-tour and I am sure I will get some good scoop on this one.

Regardless of how, the point to me is after they knew they were missing a 3 square mile perimiter should have been cordoned off, kicked every door, every mud hut, stopped every car and anyone with a weapon or explosives were shot, killed or taken captive things may be a bit diffrent. Our self serving political ticket punchers will never do that, I guess it is seen as an acceptable loss in the eyes of those people but not in mine.

Then again we are after the hearts and minds, I have news for them; we have won all the hearts and minds we are going to win at this point.
 
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