Two out of three Swiss support the EU Gun Ban, referendum against it likely to fail (poll)

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"Swiss officials have negotiated concessions for gun enthusiasts who take part in the country’s numerous shooting clubs, but any restrictions imported from the EU go too far for right-wing activists concerned about Swiss sovereignty."

In practice, what would that mean for Swiss shooters? How would their lives change?
 
Exactly. And 9 out of 10 dentists recommend Crest.... unless your watching a Colgate commercial. In which case they found 9 who didn't.

Go to a Peta convention and see how many "Americans" out of 100 are hunters.....or like hamburger for that matter. its easy to make such surveys say whatever one likes
 
AlexanderA said:
In practice, what would that mean for Swiss shooters? How would their lives change?
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Firearms_Directive#Content

The most important change is that they could possess the newly banned firearms based on an "exemption" contained in the law.

Which is a tried and practiced way. First remove right to be armed and make it privilige. Few years down the road tell them that nobody could seriously expect to keep their arms based on "exemption". And the times have changed, no more exemptions.
 
You criticize polls saying they reflect the desires of the pollster, but then you never, ever believe a result that you don't agree with about guns. IOW you seem to think that every pollster is biased against you. So what's the difference between you and them? Some polls get it wrong, but not all. Sooner or later gun advocates in the USA will have to admit and come to terms with the fact that most of their neighbors disagree with them about gun ownership. Not me, but most. Won't that be something?

Like it or not, he Swiss poll results are very likely correct. We'll see, won't we?
 
rpenmanparker said:
You criticize polls saying they reflect the desires of the pollster, but then you never, ever believe a result that you don't agree with about guns. IOW you seem to think that every pollster is biased against you. So what's the difference between you and them? Some polls get it wrong, but not all. Sooner or later gun advocates in the USA will have to admit and come to terms with the fact that most of their neighbors disagree with them about gun ownership. Not me, but most. Won't that be something?

Like it or not, he Swiss poll results are very likely correct. We'll see, won't we?
Click to expand...

How can polls be right when a large number of people won’t answer them?

I know I’m like many and hang up on them. I throw those that come to my door off my property.

The bottom line is I’m not willing to risk a confrontation about my views, and I’m not willing to be harassed by politicians and pollsters. And I’m not alone. The bottom line is there’s no way to know how many are like me. But the elections have shown we are a growing group and in close races it makes the polls useless.
 
Hokie_PhD said:
How can polls be right when a large number of people won’t answer them?

I know I’m like many and hang up on them. I throw those that come to my door off my property.

The bottom line is I’m not willing to risk a confrontation about my views, and I’m not willing to be harassed by politicians and pollsters. And I’m not alone. The bottom line is there’s no way to know how many are like me. But the elections have shown we are a growing group and in close races it makes the polls useless.
Click to expand...
The polling statistical methodology accounts for those peculiarities. People not responding is factored into the results. That’s what statisticians get paid for. And that brings up an important point. Statistics and probability. Polls aren’t meant to be infallible. They are like the chance of rain. It is a likelihood, not a certainty. Having the last presidential election come out as it did was as much a part of the poll results as the opposite. It just wasn’t the most likely outcome. Very frequently the less likely outcome is what happens. Probability! But that doesn’t mean the odds weren’t as described. What, do you win every football bet because you take the favorite. I don’t think so.
 
I didn't want to weigh in on that but since the debate got off already...

Trump did lose by about 3 million votes. So the polls had it about right. What they didn't account for was that he would be able to win through electoral college even with so many less votes.

Brexit polls were showing very, very narrow victory for remain. The result was narrow victory for leave. They were not so far off as generally thought.

In both cases the polls were near misses that were drummed up by partisan media into something they were not.

But I do still hope that the Swiss polls are quite off. We Czechs need someone else to join us in upsetting the gun control momentum. We won't bulge anyway. But if we will be the only ones any future fights will be decked seriously against us from the outset.
 
rpenmanparker said:
The polling statistical methodology accounts for those peculiarities. People not responding is factored into the results. That’s what statisticians get paid for. And that brings up an important point. Statistics and probability. Polls aren’t meant to be infallible. They are like the chance of rain. It is a likelihood, not a certainty. Having the last presidential election come out as it did was as much a part of the poll results as the opposite. It just wasn’t the most likely outcome. Very frequently the less likely outcome is what happens. Probability! But that doesn’t mean the odds weren’t as described. What, do you win every football bet because you take the favorite. I don’t think so.
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Normally.
But we’re seeing a change in attitudes and the way people react to polls.
So traditional models aren’t working
Add in bias by polling organizations
Add in the fact that pollsters aren’t getting samples that accurately represent voters.

The pole OP mentioned probably has many biases and is clearly being used for political agenda. So I have no trust in it.
I have no trust in any poll right now.

Probability of outcomes is not the same as poll results. Polls should be close to their margin of error. As we are seeing that’s not happening. Again, if you’re not sampling a large group of voters the polls will be skewed. And hence results that aren’t useful.

Sorry but until things change poll results aren’t something we can trust as a way to get predictions of an outcome.
 
Snejdarek said:
I didn't want to weigh in on that but since the debate got off already...

Trump did lose by about 3 million votes. So the polls had it about right. What they didn't account for was that he would be able to win through electoral college even with so many less votes.

Brexit polls were showing very, very narrow victory for remain. The result was narrow victory for leave. They were not so far off as generally thought.

In both cases the polls were near misses that were drummed up by partisan media into something they were not.

But I do still hope that the Swiss polls are quite off. We Czechs need someone else to join us in upsetting the gun control momentum. We won't bulge anyway. But if we will be the only ones any future fights will be decked seriously against us from the outset.
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Exactly so.
 
I'm over 400+ employees right now. If I walk up to them in a Bernie/ Trump/Spiro Agnew/Elsa of avondale or whoever for president shirt.... I assure you I will get a higher percentage agreeing with my shirt than not. A few would also go against my shirt regardless of what they thought too. I'm skeptical with polls regardless of if they agree with my views or not. Only a true vote is an indicator IMO

My company also does a yearly health survey. According to the results 2 percent drink and even less smoke. Yet at shift change half the parking lot goes straight to the beer store

Even the wording or attitude of the person on the line can influence.
 
Hokie_PhD said:
Normally.
But we’re seeing a change in attitudes and the way people react to polls.
So traditional models aren’t working
Add in bias by polling organizations
Add in the fact that pollsters aren’t getting samples that accurately represent voters.

The pole OP mentioned probably has many biases and is clearly being used for political agenda. So I have no trust in it.
I have no trust in any poll right now.

Probability of outcomes is not the same as poll results. Polls should be close to their margin of error. As we are seeing that’s not happening. Again, if you’re not sampling a large group of voters the polls will be skewed. And hence results that aren’t useful.

Sorry but until things change poll results aren’t something we can trust as a way to get predictions of an outcome.
Click to expand...
It has nothing to do with trust. You aren’t expected to be betting on the outcome. It is just an indicator. Maybe it is sometimes a better indicator and sometimes a poorer one. Just running polls down all the time as happens on THR is silly. Do you have a better predictor?
 
crestoncowboy said:
I'm over 400+ employees right now. If I walk up to them in a Bernie/ Trump/Spiro Agnew/Elsa of avondale or whoever for president shirt.... I assure you I will get a higher percentage agreeing with my shirt than not. A few would also go against my shirt regardless of what they thought too. I'm skeptical with polls regardless of if they agree with my views or not. Only a true vote is an indicator IMO

Even the wording or attitude of the person on the line can influence.
Click to expand...
Pollsters aren’t stupid. They study this stuff 100 ways from Sunday. They know everything you are saying and do their best to deal with it. There are good ones and not as good ones. Just like everything else.

Say what you will, but it smells. Folks distrusting polls which just happen to predict unattractive outcomes rings false to me.
 
Sometimes sure. But if a poll said 90 percent of Americans favored less gun control I'd call bs on that too. Just look at Fox vs CNN. Both will claim 80 percent of Americans want this or approve of that. It's simply not accurate because both channels WILL claim opposite results.
 
crestoncowboy said:
Sometimes sure. But if a poll said 90 percent of Americans favored less gun control I'd call bs on that too. Just look at Fox vs CNN. Both will claim 80 percent of Americans want this or approve of that. It's simply not accurate because both channels WILL claim opposite results.
Click to expand...
Maybe , maybe not. One could be right and the other wrong. That IS how the world works.
 
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