TWO Pennsylvania bills to review

[Glockman17366]

To all THR readers from Pennsylvania:

Two bills have been introduced:
H.B. 1235 clarifies and expands challenges to "ANY PERSON WHO IS DENIED THE RIGHT TO RECEIVE, SELL, TRANSFER, POSSESS, CARRY, MANUFACTURE OR PURCHASE A FIREARM AS A RESULT OF THE PROCEDURES ESTABLISHED BY THIS SECTION MAY CHALLENGE THE ACCURACY OF THAT PERSON'S CRIMINAL HISTORY"

The way I read and interpret this bill (which is sponsored by: J. WHITE, McCALL, EVERETT, METCALFE, SURRA, GERGELY, SOLOBAY, COX, DALEY, DENLINGER, GIBBONS, GOODMAN, HORNAMAN, KAUFFMAN, KORTZ, KOTIK, MAHONEY, MANDERINO, McILHATTAN, MOYER, MUSTIO, READSHAW, SAYLOR, SCAVELLO, WALKO, YEWCIC, HESS AND ROAE), it puts more burden on the agency that provides the reason for denial.
Stan Saylor is my local representative and has an excellent track record for supporting 2nd Amendment rights.

Please read this bill, post your comments and contact your representative indicating your support of H.B. 1235.

BTW, I did type "The way I read and interpret". If those who read this bill see something I missed, please post your response HERE.

Link to HB 1235 text here.

That's the good one....here's the BAD one:
H.B. 1633 introduces registration of all firearms in cities of the "First Class".

It has been sponsored by CRUZ, YOUNGBLOOD, BLACKWELL, JAMES AND THOMAS

This bill requires the registration, FINGERPRINTING and the same crap that Cruz and comrades attempted previously.

I had an interesting conversation with one of Cruz' associates concerning this bill.
It's too lengthy to type here, but the gist was the root cause of gun violence in Cruz' district was drugs..more specifically, drug money (the monies made both legally (legal system) and illegally (sales of restricted substances).
My primary point was as long as Cruz, et al, focused on legally acquired guns, they would continue to fail...as they have done so far...

Anyway, H.B. 1633 is a bill to express your disapproval of. Please contact your representative and the Judiciary Committee. BTW, a couple folks who reviewed the text of HB 1633 have made note that this bill would effectively prohibit concealed carry in Philadelphia (Pittsburgh too, I believe)

Link to HB 1633.

 

[Rumble]

As I understand it, performing the activities required by HB 1633 is expressly prohibited by existing PA Law. I need to go digging for more details.

 

[Glockman17366]

Rumble...you're right...and according to Cruz's office associate...he knows you're right too
Cruz is an ass....and a dumb ass at that. Along with his co-sponsors on this bill.
But remember...they're just Rendell's lackeys...they have no minds of their own

 

[USMC6177]

20 (1) The name, home and business address, telephone
21 number, date of birth and Social Security number of the
22 applicant.
23 (2) The age, sex and citizenship of the applicant.
24 (3) The name of the manufacturer, the caliber or gauge,
25 the model, type and serial number of each firearm to be
26 registered.
27 (4) Two photographs taken within 30 days immediately
28 prior to the date of filing the application equivalent to
29 passport size showing the full face, head and shoulders of
30 the applicant in a clear and distinguishing manner

Sounds alot like a NYS pistol permit. That is not what you want.

 

[pacodelahoya]

They would have to ammend the Pa state constitution to do it. The last time they ammended it was at night regarding the state legislators pay raise.

Lots of representatives and a state supreme court judge got fired next election.

 

[coat4gun]

HB 1235 seems like it is a good thing unless you consider that even "criminals" have the right to "keep and bear arms" and the current law unconstitutionally "questions" that right.

I also do not trust the PA State Police as they have proven themselves unworthy of my trust on several accounts (ie Keeping illegal records of handgun purchases and also denying out of state ccw permits when holder is not a resident of ccw permit State) They have earned my distrust. At least HB 1235 leaves an out by going to the Attorney General in appeal.

 

[Glockman17366]

"HB 1235 seems like it is a good thing unless you consider that even "criminals" have the right to "keep and bear arms" and the current law unconstitutionally "questions" that right."

I believe criminals (convicted of felonies) lose their constitutional rights after conviction.
Anyway...let's stick with the good guys, OK? Tossing BG's into the equation simply defeats the noble purpose of 1235.
And, yes, the PSP is a very political and untrustworthy organization.

 

[K-Romulus]

Anti-gun-owners going on the offensive:

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/homepage/20070628_Pa__black_caucus__No_gun_laws__no_budget.html

Pa. black caucus: No gun laws, no budget
Angry Phila. legislators aim to hold up spending bill over crime relief.
By Amy Worden
Inquirer Harrisburg Bureau
HARRISBURG - Anger about the lack of action on gun-control bills boiled over onto the House floor yesterday, with several African American Democrats from Philadelphia vowing to hold up passage of the state budget unless their bills are considered.

With the city's death toll approaching 200 this year, six members of the Pennsylvania Legislative Black Caucus made impassioned pleas for help during an unexpected two-hour discussion about gun violence and many of its root causes: drugs, joblessness and poverty.

They were not debating a bill; none of the 14 anticrime bills introduced this session has even made it out of a House committee.

Amid a busy day filled with a slew of budget bills, Rep. Jewell Williams, chairman of the Philadelphia delegation, used a parliamentary procedure known as "unanimous consent" to voice his frustration over the stalled gun-control bills.

"I am going to make it completely clear: no gun legislation, no votes for the budget," Williams said. "Philadelphia members are constantly asked to support legislation that helps other areas of the state as our pleas for help continue to fall on deaf ears.

The Democrats hold a one-seat majority in the 203-member House. The caucus, with 17 members, could block the budget.

Rep. Thomas W. Blackwell of Philadelphia told anti-gun-control rural lawmakers, who make up the majority of the House, that he had no intention of trying to restrict the rights of law-abiding citizens.

"We're not trying to control what you do in your home," he said. "We're trying to control what's going on in the streets of Philadelphia."

Several suburban Philadelphia lawmakers stood to support their urban colleagues. Rep. Mike Gerber (D., Montgomery) said gun violence has a negative effect on the region.

"These problems don't know city borders," he said. "The guns flow into Montgomery County, certainly in levels that are unacceptable."

Rep. Thaddeus Kirkland (D., Delaware), chairman of the Pennsylvania Legislative Black Caucus, which has 17 House members, invoked the words of civil rights activist Malcolm X on the House floor, saying he was prepared to advance the cause of gun control "by any means necessary."

"We are prepared to stand firm and we could hold up some things," he said. When asked whether he meant the budget, Kirkland said, "yes."

It was unclear how many other members of the caucus would support Williams and Kirkland in their threat, but House leadership recognized the power of the caucus as a voting bloc.

"Their concern is legitimate; you can't blame them for using the only tool in their toolbox," said Mike Manzo, chief of staff for House Majority Leader Bill DeWeese (D., Greene). "They wield considerable influence."

Gov. Rendell has repeatedly called for stricter gun laws, even going so far last month as to suggest that the legislature was being controlled by the National Rifle Association.

His spokesman, Chuck Ardo, said Rendell sympathizes with the Philadelphia legislators' intent and that "he himself intends to make a further push for the one-handgun-a month legislation in the fall."

But, he added, "If the governor held up the budget over every critical issue facing the commonwealth, at least the essential personnel will be here when the snow falls."

Early yesterday evening, in a surprise move, Rep. Thomas Caltagirone (D., Berks), chairman of the House Judiciary Committee, called a committee meeting to vote on Williams' bill to require the reporting of lost and stolen firearms (HB 29).

It failed by a vote of 11-17, but committee members agreed to reconsider the legislation later.

Other gun-control legislation still in the House Judiciary Committee includes a bill that would limit handgun purchases to one a month and another that would allow Philadelphia to craft its own gun laws.

One outcome of yesterday's impromptu gun-control debate is a new commission that will come up with bipartisan anticrime legislation.

House Speaker Dennis O'Brien (R., Phila.), responding to a request from members, said he would form a special commission to address crime and violence. His spokesman, Bill Patton, said the commission members would include outside experts and crime victims' groups, as well as lawmakers, who will draft legislation for consideration this fall.

For some, there's been enough talk about crime.

"Commissions are fine," said Kirkland. "But we have to move beyond that. We need action."

and

http://www.philly.com/philly/opinion/20070628_Opportunities_for_courage_on_gun_violence.html

Opportunities for courage on gun violence
By BRYAN MILLER
IT'S THE FIRST week of summer. As heat and humidity rise, gun deaths and injuries continue to climb in Philly, Camden, Reading, York, Harrisburg and elsewhere. Police and community organizers worry that summer's heat will fuel the fire.

Two critical opportunities have arisen during this portentous week for local legislators to step up, show some courage and act to lower the flame of gun violence.

Sadly, one such opportunity was missed on Tuesday, as Pennsylvania House Judiciary Committee Chairman Thomas Caltagirone (D-Berks) pulled a bill requiring the reporting to police of lost or stolen firearms. This is a sensible, moderate and popular measure designed to put obstacles in the way of straw purchasing, the linchpin of the illegal trade that puts handguns in the pockets of thugs, violent teens and children.

But, HB 29 was too much for the gun lobby and its patrons in the gun industry, as it would likely cut into that illegal handgun trade, meaning fewer sales and lower profits for gun makers.

So, the gun lobby put pressure on Caltagirone, and he folded, muttering drivel about HB 29 being "premature." Tell that to the families of gunshot victims who will die or be wounded while you fiddle, Mr. Caltagirone.

The other opportunity for a local legislator to show some courage will occur today, when the U.S. Senate Appropriations Committee takes up funding for the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives. Sen. Arlen Specter (R-Pa.) sits on the committee and, if he cares about his constituents' safety from gun violence more than he does the profit-driven motives of the gun lobby, he'll vote to strike a noxious rider know as the Tiahrt Amendment.

The gun lobby, working in 2003 through Kansas GOP Rep. Todd Tiahrt, gained approval of a rider that removed from public and media view all information derived from ATF's tracing of crime guns. It showed, in dramatic fashion, the flow of illegal guns, enabling police, municipal officials and legislators to develop and maintain effective public-safety policies and regulations.

Since '03, the gun lobby has succeeded in getting Congress to expand the Tiahrt Amendment's coverage so that ATF is prohibited from providing gun-trace information to anyone other than enforcement agencies, and then only for specific criminal cases. Accordingly, officials, organizations and the public who are involved in setting public-safety policies are denied information pertinent to said policies.

Why? Because the illegal handgun trade means business to the gun industry. If the public, media and officialdom learn how that trade works and the devastation it produces, then they might demand change to permanently disrupt the illegal gun business, that would reduce the number of handguns sold - and that would diminish profits.

Better to keep law enforcement, legislators, media and the public in the dark. Better to keep the Tiahrt Amendment in place.

Sen. Specter can help turn the gun-violence burner down today by rejecting the selfish blandishments of the pro-gun forces and voting to strike Tiahrt. He can show a little courage. *

Bryan Miller is executive director of Ceasefire NJ.

 

[coat4gun]

let's stick with the good guys

So someone convicted of marijuana possession in 1980 now with a wife and 4 children has no right to posses the means to defend that family? That is wrong. The current law is unjust and should be changed. If I was in such a position I would be forced to break such a law because of my God given responsibility to defend and protect my family.

If the State intends to suspend the right of any citizen then the State needs to provide for that citizen's protection interim. That is how prison is designed. If a person is not in prison, and the State is not providing for their protection, then they deserve fully protected rights. We have created far to many "moral law" criminals that are of no danger to anyone. I refuse to lump all "criminals" into one "bad guy" category. I know that among the "good guys" there are many who just didn't get caught.

 

[Rumble]

I often wonder how anti-gun authors picture the "profit-driven gun industry." I have a feeling that they imagine some massive megacorporate kraken led by rotund, mustachioed robber barons who eat spotted owl foie gras and dress entirely in clothing made from innocent babies.

I can't remember the figures, but isn't the firearms industry's entire annual profit less than what Exxon-Mobil makes in a month?

 

[alan]

Assuming that H.B. 1633 were enacted, I doubt that that will hapen though the thing is worth watching and gun owners should certainly get on to their state representatives, what would then be accomplished?

1. Keep the followig in mind: Registration of Firearms Leads To Confiscation of Firearms. The foregoing are not simply a catchy, ringing phrase, the foregoing reflects historical fact. California, New York City, New Jersey, to mention three locales are all within this country, and registration of firearms has led to the confiscation of firearms from LAW ABIDING CITIZENS in those jurisdictions.


2. Given enactment of of 1633, the relevant authorities would end up with a perhaps lengthy listing of LAW ABIDING CITIZENS, people who had abided by foolish and otherwise questionable legislation. Would making LAW ABIDING CITIZENS jump through all manner of hoops, pay who knows what amount of their hard earned dollars in fees and so forth, in any way at all enhance the public safety? The answer is plainly NO, it would not, so what drives the push for such illadvised proposals, and who is behind them, also what unstated agendas are they following?

H.B. 1235, on it's face, is worthy of suport.

 

[OCJ]

My question to the Philla reps is why aren't they doing anything about the drugs that are causing the gang violence? Why not propose bills with stricter penalties for the offenders and funding for more police officers to patrol problem areas instead of wasting all of our time?

 

[coat4gun]

Illegal drugs are only a problem because drugs are illegal. We learned nothing from the failure of prohibition. Making drugs/alcohol/tobacco/ illegal only increases crime and make criminals of innocent people.

The crime is high because the .Gov is telling someone what not to do with their own body and that someone is saying NO, you have no authority to tell me what I can and can't do with my body... plain and simple... hence you get crime. Make the drugs legal and now all that money spent on law enforcement can be spent on rehabilitation instead... after the drug user realizes that drugs really are not good for me after all.

 

[K-Romulus]

HB1633 seems to me to require DC-style safe storage of all registered firearms.

It also seems to bar carrying the loaded registered firearm anywhere but your home or business. CCW????

Section 5. Additional duties of registrant
Each person holding a registration certificate shall:
. . .
(3) Keep any firearm in the registrant's possession
unloaded and disassembled or bound by a trigger lock, gun
safe or similar device unless the firearm is in the
registrant's immediate possession and control while at the
registrant's place of residence or business or while being
used for lawful recreational purposes within a city of the
first class. This paragraph shall not apply to law
enforcement personnel or security personnel while in the
course of their employment.

 

[Glockman17366]

"HB1633 seems to me to require DC-style safe storage of all registered firearms.

It also seems to bar carrying the loaded registered firearm anywhere but your home or business. CCW????"

HB 1633 would eliminate CCW in Philadelphia as the bill is written..

That's the big problem with most anti-rights legislature coming out of Philly. They're hitting lawful owners, not the bad guys.
This is also why they're doomed to failure.

 

[45Badger]

How about this for a solution to handgun violence in Philly-

"If you are a drug dealer or gang member (or aspire to either of those positions), it is illegal for you to buy a handgun. It is illegal for you to shoot someone with a handgun. It is illegal for you to have a handgun on your person or vehicle."

That would seem to cover the majority of handgun killers in Philly. I suppose you could have the same law apply to long guns, too. Then Philly would be a safe city. I can't find the "barf" icon........

 

[Glockman17366]

"9mm = .45acp set on "stun" "

Oh man...that is just soooooooo cruel!

I had a pretty lengthy discussion with one of Cruz's office aids...basically told him the same as you wrote, Badger. It did go into more depth...but one thing I did ask is if Cruz was so foolish to think any of his laws would even slow the BG's down at all. Well, you know these guys have a "La La" land mindset.

One thing that was brought up were straw purchases...my comment was that there are already laws against that...so what good would a new law be....that's rhetorical for THR, of course. One of my comments is that prosecutors plead or drop those straw purchase charges down all too frequently...so what good would any more do? Again, rhetorical...
I asked what the root cause of all this violence was. To make a long story short....the aid admitted the root cause was drug money (which is a no brainer, of course...but it took a while to get there). So, why not focus on that aspect, rather then the lawful citizen? Well, we've heard or read it all before, haven't we?

I did contact my rep, Stan Saylor, via e-mail. I asked him to consider introducing a bill that would prohibit straw purchase charges from being pled down, dropped or dismissed. There would also be a mandatory minimum sentence (as much as I hate them).
There would have to be safeguards to ensure a legit purchaser buying a gun for a gift (or something of that nature) could not be charged under this law.
What do you guys think of that?