Two Things I Swore I'd Never Own Again...

[ugaarguy]

...all rolled into one. Those things would be a 20" bbl, fixed stocked AR type rifle, regardless of manufacturer; and a DPMS manufactured rifle of any type.

Well, that all changed yesterday. Tuesday night the owner of the LGS showed me a used DPMS LR-308, and quoted me a great price. Thanks to searching reviews & comments here at THR I found out that DPMS' AR-10 style rifles are significantly better than their AR-15 type rifles. My uses for an AR-10 are also different than for an AR-15. The fact that the LR-308 is more or less an SR-25 pattern rifle was another positive. Compatibility with the new MagPul PMag LR mags was another big factor.

So, I decided to get the rifle. It appears to be a during the ban configured LR-308. It's a slick side, flat top upper, with 20" black finish (I assume phosphated) bbl. It has what appears to be a permanently attached muzzle brake made to look like a birdcage flash hider.

I shot it at the indoor 25 yard range to function check it. Optic used was a Millett DMS-1 mounted in Burris PEPR that I already had on hand. The rifle showed very good potential at that range - I'll post a pic of the target later. The only issue is that the rifle needs a new bolt catch because it wont lock open on the last shot. Examining the lower with the upper removed, and the factory mag inserted confirmed this. That's a cheap & quick fix though. Overall I'm pleased with the rifle.

I've owned and shot FAL & HK-91 clones in the past, and they just didn't do it for me. I also owned a Garand for a while, which I liked better than the Euro battle rifles; so I'd thought about an M14/M1A if I ever went back to a .308 Win / 7.62 NATO semi-auto. The price on the LR-308 was what pushed me over the edge to an AR-10 style rifle. I don't know why I never considered one more seriously. It's literally a really big AR-15, so maintenance, troubleshooting, etc. are all very easy for a long time AR-15 user. The controls are obviously just like on an AR-15, so there was zero learning curve to shooting it well. AR-10s are just awesome .

 

[taliv]

cool, enjoy it

note that when you start accessorizing there are some differences so many AR15 parts are compatible with the 308 version but not all.

also, the 308 PMAGs are good but not as great as the 223 versions. OAL is short which can bite you if you handload and mine seem prone to tilting though i can't say i've had a malf because of it yet. and the lids don't seem as easy to use. but since you can buy 8-10 PMAGs for the price of one KAC mag, i still use them

 

[rondog]

Why the hate for the DPMS AR-15's? Just curious because I have one, and other than the trigger I like it. But it's the only AR-15 I've ever touched.

 

[Sig88]

I'd be interested to hear how it functions at longer distances. An AR-10 is on the want list down the road. Are parts for the AR-10s interchangeable among the different manufacturers?

Anyways congrats on the addition and hope you enjoy it.

 

[Art Eatman]

OTOH, I'm as happy as a pig in a corn crib with a 20" fixed-stock AR.

 

[ants]

Are parts for the AR-10s interchangeable among the different manufacturers?

That's a bigger question than it seems. Basically, there are two basic types: Armalite and KAC25/DPMS. But other manufacturers also vary in specific places, like RRA with a slightly longer receiver and different magwell and mag release to accept FAL magazines.

Sites like this one http://308ar.com/compatibility.htm give you much greater detail. I do believe ar15.com has a section on 308 with a list of differences among manufacturers, but some of the things listed there are untrue. Personally, I don't find ar15.com a completely reliable resource for 308 info. You may find otherwise, I guess.

 

[Rubber_Duck]

Why the hate for the DPMS AR-15's? Just curious because I have one, and other than the trigger I like it. But it's the only AR-15 I've ever touched.

rondog,

A google search will bring up some answers about DPMS' reputation without having to steer this thread in that direction.

 

[-v-]

My rule of thumb for AR-10 pattern rifles is each one is basically a unique platform, and not that interchangeable among other AR-10 rifles. Since there's no single unifying TDP on the AR-10, each manufacturer goes and does it slightly different their own way. End result is stock, handguards, and magazines for some will interchange, but really thats about it.

Accuracy wise, its not uncommon for the LR308's to hold 1 MOA or so. Some do better some do slightly worse, but I havent heard of any hitting 2MOA or more with good ammo.

 

[ugaarguy]

Why the hate for the DPMS AR-15's? Just curious because I have one, and other than the trigger I like it. But it's the only AR-15 I've ever touched.

I think hate is a rather strong word, particularly to describe opinions about an inanimate object. Rather than take this thread off topic, the easiest thing to do is use the advanced search function, with search posts by user. Search my user name, and DPMS. That will show you my experiences.

I try to keep an open mind, and that's why I was willing to try the LR-308. My initial impressions are very favorable.

Are parts for the AR-10s interchangeable among the different manufacturers

There's a good thread over on Sniper's Hide about the LMT MWS, and as you get down a little bit a KAC employee says the LMT is essentially identical to the KAC SR-25. The MWS does have its own bbl system though. The KAC employee also notes some differences in the KAC SR-25, and KAC M110. Again, the DPMS LR-308 is SR-25 compatible.

My rule of thumb for AR-10 pattern rifles is each one is basically a unique platform, and not that interchangeable among other AR-10 rifles. Since there's no single unifying TDP on the AR-10, each manufacturer goes and does it slightly different their own way. End result is stock, handguards, and magazines for some will interchange, but really thats about it.

The UK MOD has adopted the LMT MWS, and the US Army has adopted the KAC M110. Hopefully those two military adoptions will soon steer .308 size AR style rifles into some sort of standard. Otherwise, as -v- states, they all have their own little subtleties.

 

[JTW Jr.]

OTOH, I'm as happy as a pig in a corn crib with a 20" fixed-stock AR

So am I , when I bought mine it had an adjustable stock , it was quickly replaced with an A2 stock with a spacer.

 

[Dimis]

So am I , when I bought mine it had an adjustable stock , it was quickly replaced with an A2 stock with a spacer

but how can you be tacticool now?

 

[ugaarguy]

On the stock issue, there isn't a whole lot I desire to do with a 20" AR-15 that I can't do with a lighter & more compact carbine. Switching to a larger frame AR-10/LR-308/SR-25 type rifle makes me desire the full stock and 20" bbl - which I have in this rifle. The only issue is my short arms. I'm trying to find an A1 stock to replace the A2 stock to fit me better. I'm having trouble finding one though, so any help would be appreciated.

 

[JTW Jr.]

but how can you be tacticool now?

hehe...guess I am too old school to be tacti-cool.

A friend bragging about his adjustable stock : " I can adjust it to the length I need , so if I was wearing body armor or a vest , I could adjust it to fit "..

Me : You have armor/vest ?

Him: No

Me: Buying any soon ?

Him: " No , why would I ? "

I will take old school over tacti-cool ( or tacti-fool for the posers ).

 

[-v-]

Well, in favor of the adjustable stock, I find it quite handy when shooting from bench versus field positions to adjust it to be just the right length for that situation. At the bench, I like it all the way out, out and about anything from all the way in to all the way out depending on the situation.

 

[sixgunner455]

Also in favor of adjustable stock. Multiple shooters on the same rifle, especially women and children, will find the adjustable stock a very friendly addition to the little black rifle.

AR10, on the other hand ... I shot a POF a few weeks ago, and ... man, that is a sexy beast of a rifle! Very tempting. Very.

 

[Sig88]

Thanks all for the info. I'll try to find that thread and take a look.

 

[Art Eatman]

For anybody with short-length arms, the variable stock is a winner. Since my sleeve-length is around 35", I'm in a different situation.

 

[Dimis]

JTW I was just funnin ya any way lol

I dont mind some tacticool stuff just for fun but some guys take it way too far and way too seriously

I still like the 20 bbl with a fixed stock just as much as I like the 16bbl with an adjustable stock... heck I just like guns ALL of them lol

 

[JTW Jr.]

JTW I was just funnin ya any way lol

its all good.

I admit to having one 16" with a Daniel Defense 12.0 forend on it , but otherwise all 3 have fixed stocks

Since my sleeve-length is around 35", I'm in a different situation.

My kids think my longer arms just allow me to reach deeper into my pockets.

 

[longdayjake]

My adjustable stock comes in handy rather often. My wife likes it shorter and a couple other folks I let shoot it do too. I find it has helped a lot of people learn not to be afraid or uncomfortable around firearms.

 

[ugaarguy]

Well the dawg woke me to take her outside an hour ago (0500 local). I got online to occupy myself until my brain would shut down & get tired again. The good news is that I did finally find an A1 style buttstock. Cavalry arms still makes them, and calls them C1 buttstocks. So there's a source for my short armed brethren. And on that note, I'm going back to bed.

 

[Catalina]

Can you share your thoughts/feelings on the "felt" weight difference from a comparable length .223 AR15 and your new .308 AR?

TIA

 

[ugaarguy]

Can you share your thoughts/feelings on the "felt" weight difference from a comparable length .223 AR15 and your new .308 AR?

Couple caveats first. It's been four years since I carried an M16A2 in the USAF. It's been about three years since I owned a Colt SP1 AR-15. Everything I've owned since have been 16" bbl M4geries with M4 or Gov't profile bbls. This LR-308 has an A2 buttstock, and a 20" heavy bbl.

From that perspective, it feels somewhat heavy, and front heavy at that. Honestly though, it doesn't feel much different (going from memory) than A2 stocked, heavy bbl. AR-15s like Colt match HBARs I've handled in the past. With the A2 stock, and longer receivers it feels long more than anything.

I do have a source on an A1 stock now, and the shorter LOP will probably help with balance. Also, this rifle has a factory free float tube as noted above. Because the AR-10 / SR-25 pattern rifles have a necessarily larger bbl nut, the FF tube is consequently much larger. It's not bad, but it just takes some getting used to.