TX Teachers with guns: New Article

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http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26393946/



Students pack bookbags, teachers pack heat
Texas school district allows teachers to carry guns for protection


Updated 2:52 p.m. CT, Mon., Aug. 25, 2008

AUSTIN, Texas - Along with normal first-day jitters and excitement, students in this tiny district started school Monday wondering which teachers might be toting firearms.

"It was kind of awkward knowing that some teachers were carrying guns," said Adam Lira, 17, a senior. "I don't feel like they should be, 'cause we already have locked doors and cameras. But I didn't feel threatened by it."

Several parents said they had no idea that employees of the K-12 school were allowed to carry concealed guns on campus until recent publicity about the school board's policy, approved quietly last fall. They said they were upset that the rural community near the Oklahoma border had not been able to give input. While some parents said they felt their children were safer, others opposed the plan, which appears to be the first of its kind nationwide.

"As far as I'm concerned, teachers were trained to educate my children — not carry a gun. Even police officers need years of training in hostage situations," said Traci McKay, whose three children are among the 110 students in the red-brick Harrold school. "I don't want my child looking over her shoulder wondering who's carrying a gun."

But Harrold Superintendent David Thweatt said the board approved the policy in an October open meeting that had been publicized. He said the decision was made after nearly two years of researching the best school security options at the school, which is just off a busy highway and 30 minutes away from the sheriff's office.

"When you outlaw guns in a certain area, the only people who follow that are law-abiding citizens, and everybody else ignores it," Thweatt said. The superintendent said some of the school's 50 employees are carrying weapons, but he wouldn't say how many. When pressed further, he first said that revealing that number might jeopardize school security. He then added that he considered it to be personnel information and not a matter of public record.

Each employee who wants to carry a weapon first must be approved by the board based on his or her personality and reaction to a crisis, Thweatt said. In addition to training required for a state concealed weapons license, they also must be trained to handle crisis intervention and hostage situations.

State education officials said they did not know of any other Texas schools allowing teachers to carry guns. National security experts and the Brady Center to Prevent Gun Violence said they did not know of other U.S. schools with such a policy.

School districts in some states, including Florida and Arizona, have closed loopholes that allowed guns on K-12 campuses. Utah allows concealed weapons at public universities but not at primary or secondary schools.

Special bullets, extra precautions


Thweatt said the board took extra precautions, such as requiring employees to use bullets that will minimize the risk of ricochet, similar to those used by air marshals on planes.

"I can lead them from a fire, tornado and toxic spill; we have plans in place for that. I cannot lead them from an active shooter," Thweatt said. "There are people who are going to think this is extreme, but it's easy to defend."

Judy Priz, who has a third-grade daughter, said that "everyone I've talked to thinks it's great." She said she trusts the teachers with her child's life.

"Look how long it takes the police or anybody else to get here," she told the Fort Worth Star-Telegram for a story in its Monday online edition. "If someone wants to come here and harm someone, at least we would have sort of defense."

Gov. Rick Perry has said he supports the policy because "there's a lot of incidents where that would have saved a number of lives."

The Brady Center has spoken out against the plan, saying it may not comply with Texas law, which bans firearms at schools unless carriers have given written permission. If the school board authorizes an employee to carry a gun, then that person must be a peace officer, according to the center.

"It's unfair of us to ask teachers to take on the additional job of being police officers," said Paul Helmke, president of the Brady Campaign.

Cheryl Mehl, an attorney for the Harrold school district, said the statute the Brady Center cites applies only to security guards, not teachers and other employees. The district has no security guards.
 
I predict there will never be an incident at thei school but there will be incidents at the 'sheep zone districts.'
 
Excellent!

As far a young Mr. Lira is concerned, locked doors and cameras never stopped anyone from shooting up a school. And for Ms. Traci McKay, the personnel who are carrying must have Texas Concealed Handgun Licenses which require training and qualification. The purpose of arming the teachers is to ensure a "hostage situation" never happens.

More school districts should follow suit.

ECS
 
I am only 22 and the "locked doors and cameras" statement really disturbs me. I agree that more schools should do this!
 
In reality, this is a rural school district with 110 students inclusive of all grades K-12. There are probably more kindergarten students alone at the one elementary school in my neighborhood than there are in the whole Harrold school district, and there are a dozen or more elementary schools in our district. So you know, this really is not likely to influence normal people in typical school districts with tens or hundreds of thousands of students.

I applaud the effort but it needs to happen in a school district in Houston, Dallas, San Antonio or Austin in order to make much difference. And the written notice needs to be in the employee manual and not on a case-by-case basis accompanied by double-secret training.

Beyond a parent carrying in the home of a home-schooled child, this really is the smallest possible step. Sure, it's a step, but only in the strictest definition of the term. This is a game where we are behind by a mile and we appreciate even inches gained, and here we've gained about an Angstrom.

I applaud Mr. Thweatt for doing nearly all he can for his district. Somehow I seriously doubt that his actions are going to do anything to change the overwhelming majority of hand-wringing, left-wing school board members across TX to allow teachers to carry to work in their districts. We need to eliminate the "gun free zones" altogether and begin with public-owned property. If there is one place on earth where our rights should not be infringed, it should be in the places like schools, parks and courthouses, that were built and paid for with our tax money. That is the most plain definition of infringement and we all swallow it happily.

The problem is that not even pro-RKBA people are fully on board with school carry. A fair number of us will continue to argue for increased training or other requirements.
 
Some of us, are already moving in our states to eliminate the prohibition of CC on school and college campuses!

KC3, in Kentucky is in the early stages of petitioning the state government in their next legislative session to remove the restriction for CC licensed individuals, (teachers, parents, grandparents, or in colleges, students who have obtained their CC license) to carry concealed while on school property.

While I may not want to removed my gun or guns to enter a court house, post office, city building, or LE building, I can live with that. But not being able to defend myself and or students at a school, I cannot feel comfortable with that.

Admittedly, I no longer have kids of school age, but I could be there for any reason, dropping off or picking up kids for friends (and having to enter the building to show the permission to pick them up) and under current law, I must disarm if I leave my vehicle to enter the school. I do not want to be disarmed or running back to my truck for a gun.

Who knows I might decide to take some additional college courses, and be a student on the local university campus. Do I want to have to disarm, NO!
 
Beyond a parent carrying in the home of a home-schooled child, this really is the smallest possible step. Sure, it's a step, but only in the strictest definition of the term. This is a game where we are behind by a mile and we appreciate even inches gained, and here we've gained about an Angstrom.

By that logic I guess Rosa parks shouldn't have sat at the front of the bus. It was one person on one bus in one small town. It should have been every bus in everytown at the same time.

Sometimes a movement starts with one step. People are working in a lot of different states to push the agenda. In VA CCW for college campus will be brought up. The same debate is happening in lots of other states. Despite all the work this is happening, not something proposed, or being legislated. To minimize it I think is short sighted.

Prior to this no public school in America had even one armed teacher. Today that is not true. Sadly there will be another school shooting and next time the debate won't be so theoretical. This school will come up in the media. Armed Teachers worked here, would they have worked at the school with a shooter.

The public needs to get use to (slowly) the idea that good guys carry guns. Until they do they will never come around. Some like Brady Campaign will NEVER come around but we don't need them. We get 60% of Americans that support RKBA, CCW, Open Carry, no gun-free zones, no further restrictions on our rights and the politicians will come around also.

The problem is that not even pro-RKBA people are fully on board with school carry. A fair number of us will continue to argue for increased training or other requirements.
Then IMHO they are not pro RKBA. There are RIGHTS and there are PRIVILEGES. Some gun owners are PKBA meaning they believe that open carry, CCW, ability to purchase firearms are all privelidges granted by the state (king) to us lowly serfs. Not the kind of government our founding fathers envisioned.
 
By that logic I guess Rosa parks shouldn't have sat at the front of the bus. It was one person on one bus in one small town.

2nd largest city in Alabama.

Yeah it was one bus, in one town. I am not denigrating the effort by the people in the Harrold school district. But I think the impact will be extremely small in the grand scheme of things.

Prior to this no public school in America had even one armed teacher.

That almost certainly is not true.

#1, there are probably hundreds, or even thousands or more teachers who carry at school regardless of the law. I know of more than one myself.

#2, there is no compelling reason for a school district, at least in TX, to publicize whether they have given any teacher or other employee written authorization to carry a gun at school. Certainly if the principal of a high school in Round Rock, TX were to give written authorization to one or more teachers and then publicize this choice, they would come under heavy political fire for doing so. Just because the schools are not required to allow all CHL holders to carry at school doesn't mean they are required to disallow them all.
 
"It was kind of awkward knowing that some teachers were carrying guns," said Adam Lira, 17, a senior. "I don't feel like they should be, 'cause we already have locked doors and cameras. But I didn't feel threatened by it."

out of the mouth of babes, as they say.

The superintendent said some of the school's 50 employees are carrying weapons, but he wouldn't say how many. When pressed further, he first said that revealing that number might jeopardize school security. He then added that he considered it to be personnel information and not a matter of public record.
God bless Mr. Thweatt !

State education officials said they did not know of any other Texas schools allowing teachers to carry guns. National security experts and the Brady Center to Prevent Gun Violence said they did not know of other U.S. schools with such a policy.

Nice propaganda spin. You'll note that they didn't say that there weren't other places with such policies, just none that they know about. So basically "National security experts" (whomever they are) and the "Brady center to prevent gun violence" (who qualify to judge why?) profess ignorance on this topic but say it in a nice official sounding way, spun so as to make this TX school sound like a lone renegade. Who want's to bet $$$ that there are other school systems with a similar policy (or with a policy of "no-policy").

Judy Priz, who has a third-grade daughter, said that "everyone I've talked to thinks it's great." She said she trusts the teachers with her child's life.

YES, EXACTLY, and if you don't trust your teachers with the lives of the kids then you need to get different teachers! It has about nothing to do with guns!


Gov. Rick Perry has said he supports the policy because "there's a lot of incidents where that would have saved a number of lives."
Sounds like Rick is willing to be logical on this matter. I wish they'd linked to some of the incidents so that others would know.


"It's unfair of us to ask teachers to take on the additional job of being police officers," said Paul Helmke, president of the Brady Campaign.

Sorry Paul, allowing private citizens to have self-defense tools has nothing to do with law enforcement and that's a pretty weak attempt to cloud the issue. Also if you want to talk "unfair" let's talk about restricting the rights of the common citizen because they wish to provide a community service like teaching. Yeah let's make them responsible for the daily lives of hundreds of students...and render them helpless to protect and aid in times of emergency. Yeah, that's fair, sheesh! :rolleyes:
 
Sorry Paul, allowing private citizens to have self-defense tools has nothing to do with law enforcement and that's a pretty weak attempt to cloud the issue. Also if you want to talk "unfair" let's talk about restricting the rights of the common citizen because they wish to provide a community service like teaching. Yeah let's make them responsible for the daily lives of hundreds of students...and render them helpless to protect and aid in times of emergency. Yeah, that's fair, sheesh!

It is the best talking point the Brady campaign has.
Protection = LEO.

Number one question when a friend finds out I own guns (and they don't) is why? Why don't you just call the cops? Where do they get this idea?

For target shooting, that's okay. Get a license and go to the range. For defense of the home, that's why we have police departments.
James Brady.

As long as the public equates LEO with safety the antis will continue to have support.

The scariest thing for the antis isn't CCW, or open carry, or no gun bans, or guns in school. The scariest thing for the antis is people realizing one by one that they are responsible for their own protection. That is why every argument against guns (it doesn't matter the topic) they always bring LEO into it. They desperately NEED the people to be dependent on LEO for protection.

It is a strange marriage between LEO and the antis.
 
Even police officers need years of training in hostage situations," said Traci McKay,

Classic case of "well they must, right? I mean, they have to, they are the police, and they know what they are doing, right? How else could they be police without years of training?..."

(inner ramblings of a soccer mom who has never actually thougth about it, and made a supposition)

The scariest thing for the antis is people realizing one by one that they are responsible for their own protection. That is why every argument against guns (it doesn't matter the topic) they always bring LEO into it. They absolutely NEED the people to be dependent on LEO.

This is the frustrating part for me.

We know this to be true, but there are so many out there that refuse to consider the truth because it requires more personal responsibility.
 
The scariest thing for the antis is people realizing one by one that they are responsible for their own protection.

That is an astute point.

The problem is that people don't want to be responsible for their own protection. They want to be protected. They want to not have to be at risk. They would rather believe that someone else is responsible for their protection, safety, health, wealth, etc., even if it is not true, because by nature, many people loathe responsibility.
 
Number one question when a friend finds out I own guns (and they don't) is why? Why don't you just call the cops? Where do they get this idea?

Strangely enough all of my friends, and most of my associates, feel a fair degree of self-responsibility. However I do sometimes wind up (especially at work) having this same conversation.

Usually I turn it around with the scenario - Okay someone is actively breaking into your house, you've been able to dial 911 and the cops are on the way...BUT... they haven't arrived YET so what are you going to do until they arrive?

It never ceases to amaze me how many folks never, not one single time, have stopped to consider "what do I do until the cops arrive".

I call it the "magic shield" effect. You know "Oh I've called for help so everything is okay now (not everything will be okay when help actually arrives).

I've also seen it with
-restraining orders
-court orders
-calls to the fire department
-declaration of a "state of emergency"
 
In reality, this is a rural school district with 110 students inclusive of all grades K-12. There are probably more kindergarten students alone at the one elementary school in my neighborhood than there are in the whole Harrold school district, and there are a dozen or more elementary schools in our district. So you know, this really is not likely to influence normal people in typical school districts with tens or hundreds of thousands of students.
It isn't about influencing others, the primary point is to protect the kids. How many children were in that Amish schoolhouse that got shot up? Ten maybe? It only has to save one life to be a successful policy, which is something that no anti-gun law has been able to claim yet. The laws after Oswald didn't stop Reagen from getting shot, the laws after Columbine didn't prevent Virginia Tech. The only school shootings that have been stopped were stopped by teachers and students with weapons of their own. Appalachian school of law by students and Pearl High School by the assistant principal with a .45.
 
email the man and thank him for real action

[email protected]

Superintendent Thweatt,

I would first like to thank you for making a stand for the safety of children in your care, regardless of the negative words it may draw. It takes a depth of character greater than any I have seen in your profession so far. I might add that it is that depth of character that we have been distinctly lacking in this nation of late. Though I do not envy you and the scrutiny you'll experience, I do admire you and would like to thank you.

It takes a great individual to do what is right at one's own personal expense. I feel you have made the right choice and I hope that others will soon follow suit. I also would like to offer my encouragement and support. I can only hope perhaps one day we will all begin to realize the wisdom in what you have done to protect our loved ones.

Thank you so much for your sincere concern for the safety of those we care the most about. You have offered a real solution, not the empty promises of safety zones. Good luck to you!

Thank you sincerely,



-(DeaconKharma )

Columbia SC
 
I don't feel like they should be, 'cause we already have locked doors and cameras.

Yup, the media loves to have footage of hysteria such as people running and screamin and hiding under desks to bolster their sensationalized broadcast ratings...

I would rather see video footage of a teacher or janitor armed and thwarting a massacre by whatever means needed... Hopefully without any casualties.
 
Even police officers need years of training in hostage situations," said Traci McKay

The only thing funnier than someone randomly making up facts on the spot, is other people agreeing.

Police officers DO NOT get years of training in hostage situations.
 
The only thing funnier than someone randomly making up facts on the spot, is other people agreeing.

Police officers DO NOT get years of training in hostage situations.

It doesn't even make common sense if it was true. Lets say cops did get 3+ years of hostage training. What happens for first couple years? Are cops not allowed to carry guns? Sorry Officer Smith you haven't completed year 3 of the "Training in Hostage Situations Course" you are only allowed pepper spray. Have fun stopping those bank robbers.

It would really suck to be a cop in years 1-3 until they get to carry a gun.
 
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