Types of modern .308 bolt action rifles

[ShaiVong]

Planning ahead here, this summer I want to pick up a .308 bolt action rifle, that will be accurate out to several hundred yards.

Up until now, the only real choice ive been given is a Remington 700. That seems to be the action of choice.

Im mostly going to punch paper with it, but it should be effective in hunting and SHTF.

How do Tikka's compare to the 700's? i wish i could get a tango 51, but thats way outa my price range.

Savages seem to have a good reputation, but they dont make Tango 51's out of savage actions

Any suggestions beyond the 700?

 

[Art Eatman]

In handling various rifles, it seems easier for me to shoot a hunting rifle from the benchrest or other position than to go hunting with a rifle whose stock is primarily set up for target shooting. And, of course, target barrels tend to be a good bit heavier--which affects the balance.

In today's world, it seems that almost any rifle will provide good accuracy. Pick your brand: Somebody has reported at TFL or here about tight groups. You might have to do a bit of tweaking of the bedding of the forearm or some such; you might want to improve the trigger--but that's usually no big deal.

And that's why I commonly holler about finding a particular rifle that fits YOU properly. THEN worry about price and aesthetics.

A lot of stuff that folks discuss here is interesting, but not really of major importance. Push-feed vs. claw-feed comes to mind. Push-feed is more easily loaded one by one at the bench. And, if you're facing a charging Cape Buffalo or Alaska Brownie with a .308, the type of feed is the least of your worries.

Three position safety? I've not hunted with one in 53 years. I've never had a problem with lever-safeties or sliding types--mostly because with the bolt handle up I don't need any safety.

$0.02,

Art

 

[dakotasin]

my philosophy is a little different than art's... i don't worry about how a gun fits me. since all my rifles are either wood or a wood laminate stock, they are easy to alter if need be. the balance of a rifle is important, though (i like mine a little muzzle heavy). i look for a rifle that is pleasing to the eye, and balances nice. everything else can be altered (barrel length, stock's feel, l.o.p., etc etc etc)

i hate 3-position safeties (i don't like remington's j-lock, either, but the j-lock is a little less goofy looking than a 3-position safety).

my own preference for rifles rides squarely on big green. however, if i couldn't get ahold of a rem, my 2nd choice would be tang-safety ruger.

rem actions are very popular among custom builders for a number of reasons, but one that i don't hear very often is the weight. the rem actions are lighter than many (most? all?) others, which gives the builder/owner more flexibility about how the rest of the weight budget will be spent.

don't have a tikka, so can't comment on it specifically. i have played a little w/ a howa, and while i don't own one, i wouldn't be too awful uncomfortable w/ one were it to find its way into my cabinet somehow...

guess i have nothing nice to say about savage, so i'll say nothing.

 

[Detritus]

On Savage

note: this is MY oppinion and we're ALL intitled to speak our oppinion. Mine may not match another persons, but then again, as my father used to say (at least once i got above age 12 ) "if you thought exactly like me you BE me! and that'd be BORING"

there are three camps on savage.....

those that LOVE EM (where i am)

those that, don't know b/c they won't comment on guns they haven't shot (in truth MOST of the shootng populartion)

and those that HATE them with a passion for various reasons.

this last group contains a mix of folks who look at a savage and go "Too Ugly! Doesn't fit me right, etc, etc", or who were turned off by the older versions that put a short-action cartridge in a long action, or who simply think that anything that isn't THEIR brand is junk, or "anything THAT cheap HAS to be worthless!!"
Again, that's their oppinion, they are welcome to it. not my business if they don't like a gun i do.


as i said i LOVE em i've owned 3 and they were the three best "out-of-the-box" shooters i've EVER had. one a sporter version (110?? can't remember model designation) in .308, that got sold b/c i no longer had a use for it and was getting ready to move, the other two i were 110FPs. bought the first one in .308 then a shooting acquaintence that had just bought one in .223 adn I decided we'd each would be happier with if our gun was in the other caliber, so we stripped em down to "as bought" and swapped even.

yes they're UGLY yes they have a few quirks, but they shoot better than most other guns i've shot, and as for the ugly part, well I buy my guns to shoot, IF they look good that's a bonus. frankly if a gun shoots good i don't care if it LOOKS like it was eaten then thrown up by godzilla!!

if a savage don't fit you then, there are other rifles on the shelf. or if it's simply a stock fit issue, then like all other brands there ARE after market stocks adn that might be an option if the gun is otherwise "good to go" with you.

my one to three gripes (one has been mostly solved, and another is now no longer existant) with the three Savages i owned.

the Synthetic stocks can be a bit flimsy. this wasn't much of a problem with the FPs since they were shot bench/rest or prone with a bipod almost exclusively. but it could have caused trouble with the sporter.

(the no longer extant one) the use of a long action for both Long and Short action rounds, and the design of the magazine/spacer to allow this. i don't remember the Hunter series gun ever having this problem (i didn't shoot it near as much as the FP), nor the .308 FP (only had it 6 months).
but the .223 chambered FP had a little TOO much of a space between the front of the magazine well and the feed ramp casing an occasional jam caused by the round coming out of the mag, pitching up and to the side, causing the nose of the bullet to hit the flat portion of the breech face instead of the feedramp or chamber.

and lastly the trigger was a bit rough, though i have to say that after about 200 rounds and lots of dryfiring (with snap caps) it 'broke in" and became smoother and actually rather nice in my opinion. this of course has been solved by the "Accu-trigger" which i HAVE tried on a friends gun, and well i wish they had it on ALL their guns instead of just the "target/varmint" guns, and from what i hear it will be eventually (possibly by this fall).

 

[BusMaster007]

You asked about 'beyond the 700'.
If you've got a 700 in some other caliber, I'd say stick with the 700.
If you don't have a long gun, then a Savage 10FP might do you well for the price. It's a blind magazine rifle, if that makes a difference.
Weaver optics and base/ring mounting system could get you what you want for not too much money.

That whole system, with the obligatory Harris bipod and a sling, would be pretty good for all the things you said you wanted it to do.
Good luck.

( P.S. - If I'd have gotten the Savage 110FP when I first wanted a rifle, I'd have been shooting a LOT sooner. Instead, I got all hung up on brands, and safties, and feed/ejection styles, and the opinion of 'experts' for a couple of years. I eventually decided to get and stay with Remington. That's my story and I'm stickin' to it.)

 

[lostdog]

.308 thoughts

i've shot quite a few .308's, and here are my thoughts.......don't think about the saftey, stock design, beauty or lack thereof.

Get a rifle that you shoot well and like. I have had aruger, a rem and a steyr

for what it is worth, the tikka and stery both will shoot a 1/3"-1/2" group at 100 yds

I love my steyr....prohunter, mountain stainless..they run around 700$ and will shoot with anyhting I've seen..trigger was perfect out of box

the guy I got it from also sells tikka rifle... look for blankenship custom gus online, and The guys name is stacy blankenship. I will PM his number to you if you want

 

[twoblink]

I have a Mauser 98 with a 308 barrel.

Mauser action, a bit of flitz and some elbow grease, and you got yourself a decent rifle for very little $$$.

Go with what you like.

Most bolts out there are more accurate than the shooter, sans you are doing SWAT snipering jobs..

And as Art says, if you got a cape buffalo charging at you, what rifle you've got becomes unimportant, what's important is what your buddy who's covering ya, has in his hands..

 

[Rich357]

The SAKO hunting and "special purpose" rifles are very nice.

http://www.sako.fi/

The SAKO 75 and TRG-S may be just what you are looking for.

The TRG-22 and TRG-42 are a little long but may work for you. The TRG-22 certainly has an excellent trigger. The scope rings are very pricy and not always easy to find. The bi-pod is also pricy.

Rich

 

[FNFiveSeven]

HS Precision rocks

I have one of their rifles in .308, I liked it so much I went out and bought another one! Only problem is the price...

 

[0007]

rifles

If you have the money, find a used Remington in .308 and send it off to Norm Chandler,Jr. at Iron Brigade Armory. He tuned and put an H&S stock on mine for < $500.00. That included truing/facing the bolt and barrel. Mine was an older VS with a Magna-ported barrel. Of course if money is no object, just buy one of his rifles - (www.ironbrigadearmory.com) heh, heh

 

[BHP9]

I recently ran into a new variation of the M70 Winchester. It at first glance appears to be a push feed model 70 of post -64 manufacture but upon closer examination proved to be a new variation of the famed Model 70.

The lastest version of the Model 70 is actually a controlled feed with a fixed ejector and retains the small extractor of the post-64 push feed.

I would choose this gun or the post-64 Model 70 or the controlled feed large extractor M70 over the Remington 700 anyday. The Winchesters have the much stronger extractors and much more reliable trigger systems.

The trigger systems of the M70 Win. are open faced allowing the dirt and debrie to fall away from the trigger mechanism while the enclosed M700 trigger traps such dirt and debrie and in Viet-Nam there were many problems with Reming 700 Triggers breaking down and refusing to function (Read Peter Senichs book on U.S. Sniping rifles). If you do get a Rem 700 I do not recommend you install the aftermarket spring kits to make the trigger pull lighter. Remington in recent years has put heavier springs in their guns to prevent people from adjusting the trigger pull too light that results in the gun firing when its safety is flipped off. Much better to have a quality target grade trigger installed like the Jewel if you want a decent trigger pull out of the Remington.

Any gun can become unsafe when you modify the trigger but I have seen Win. M70 trigger modified to a safe 2 lb pull by gunsmiths that knew what they were doing. It is still better to install a target type trigger if you want a pull below 2 lbs. I personally like set triggers or triggers that were designed to safely fire the weapon at a pull measured in ounces rather than pounds. It will give you much more consistantly small groups when firing the weapon from a steady rest or in competition in the offhand (unsupported) positions.

If you are only interested in Accuracy both weapons shoot about the same but the Winchesters have the much stronger extractors, much more reliable trigger, and I have seen more Remington bolt handles and extractors break off than I care to remember at our shooting range.

Usually when a case gets stuck in the chamber two things will happen. When the owner of the Remingtion attempts to move the bolt to the rear to extract the case the extractor breaks and in some case depending on the force used the bolt handle will come off as well on the Remington.

 

[BusMaster007]

...and Carlos Hathcock said the Remington was a mature design.
He also said the Leupold scopes were top notch.

This was stated in a Rifle Shooter magazine a few years ago in an article about 'Gunny Hathcock', aka, 'The White Feather'.

Gunny used the Remington 700 in Viet Nam and HE didn't trash it nor did he say the Winchester 70 was a better gun with a better trigger and a better safety and a better extractor, etc., ad nauseum.
I say this because SOME people just have to trash the Remington 700 every time the subject comes up, and SOME people have to speak up FOR the Remington 700.

The 700 is a good rifle. The 70 is a good rifle. The 77 is a good rifle.
There a plenty of good rifles to choose from.
Some of us prefer, like, and use the Remington 700.

I'm glad to see some folks prefer other guns, including the Mauser 98 (the REAL Mauser) and the Model 70.
They are NOT the be all and end all of rifles, though.

Like some folks said, find a rifle YOU like and have fun shooting!
As I said in the earlier post: Don't wait 'til the details drive you crazy, like I did. GET A RIFLE. GO SHOOTING. You can always change your mind later, but, NEVER sell your first rifle.
Have fun!

 

[BusMaster007]

This is the source of the information I stated above re Carlos Hathcock:

The first statement was from the Petersen's Guns&Ammo Rifle Shooter 1997 special issue with the red cover and the words LONG RANGE in yellow at the top left.
Page 42 article; CARLOS HATHCOCK: The White Feather Sniper.
Page 45:
'Carlos believes the currently issued Marine Corps sniper rifle, the M40A1 built around the Remington Model 700 action, is superior to any other military sniper rifle in use anywhere in the world.
He dismisses the controversy about "controlled versus uncontrolled" feeding and other arguments about the merits of a particular bolt action over another.
"The Model 700 is a mature design and an uncomplicated action. Military armorers have learned a variety of ways to enhance the accuracy of the Model 700, and they have much more experience wth the Model 700 than any other type of action."

Carlos also stated that he likes the Unertl scopes, but, 'he believes Leupold now makes the best scopes for military and police sniper rifles.'
--------------------------------------------

If Gunny likes it, I like it.

 

[flashbackk]

A month ago I would have said the Savage. They are all great rifles, however I got a CZ550 american in 308. A wonderful rifle and a tack driver too. That set trigger sets it apart....$440 shipped or something like that.....just my .02.

 

[BHP9]

He dismisses the controversy about "controlled versus uncontrolled" feeding and other arguments about the merits of a particular bolt action over another.

I have personally jammed up controlled feed rifles by short stroking the bolt resulting in one jam that took me about 10 minutes to undo. Not a good system to use in combat.

On the National match course in rapid fire events I have seen live rounds pop out of push feed weapons including the Reminton 700 which did it more than some of the other weapons that were also push feed.

Gunny used the Remington 700 in Viet Nam and HE didn't trash it nor did he say the Winchester 70 was a better gun with a better trigger and a better safety and a better extractor, etc., ad nauseum

I could be wrong about this but when I read a book on the exploits of Hathcock it stated that he used the Pre-64 Winchester Model 70 in 30-06 caliber. It did not mention anywhere that he ever used the Remington 700 in .308 caliber.

 

[Detritus]

oooo, i better put on nomex this is gonna get me BURNED...!!

I could be wrong about this but when I read a book on the exploits of Hathcock it stated that he used the Pre-64 Winchester Model 70 in 30-06 caliber. It did not mention anywhere that he ever used the Remington 700 in .308 caliber.

would this by anychance have been "Marine Sniper" by charles Henderson??

sorry to disappoint those who took this book as gospel but Henderson, Hathcock, Land and several others who were involved in either the events it chronicles, or it's writing, editing, publication etc. have all stated that the book should NOT be used as an accurate reference text on the Full reality of even the events listed in the book!! much less the truth of "what gear was used when by who"

the concept Henderson started out with was to take a look at the USMC Scout/Sniper program in vietneam "overall", and was a good one, adn by all accounts the original draft was a decent read that told a very large adn complex story, but in a fairly THICK volume and a little dry at times (mainly when dealing with gear, logistics, TOE etc). and when he submitted it the publisher , beleiving that such a large volume with the slow points it had would npot sell well enough to the general public. told henderson to cut it down to a more managable size, cut out as much of the equipment issues as possible and to "thin the herd a bit" i.e. narrow down the story to focus on "one interesting figure". so he of course chose Hathcock, mildly embellished some of his exploits, adn then cut the discussion of gear to a more manageable point. (there are also allegations that Henderson attributed the actions of scout/snipers that were later KIA, to Hathcock to plump up the book a bit. but with neither Hathcock, nor the other sniper still among us i think it best to not dig into those)

Hathcock and the M70 Vs M700 is a bit of a tricky one, due to the fact that unlike the Henderson book, Carlos himself is quoted as saying he had at least TWO different rifles during his time as a sniper! the first is the M70 mentioned in Marine sniper. the second was one of the "franken-rifles" that the first M-40s would be based on. a M-700 remington action in .308 (thus back to then standard Match ammo), with Winchester M70 trigger guard and floorplate, on a custom stock, all made up by USMC armorers in the states. Carlos Also states in various interveiws that it is this SECOND rifle that he liked best.

Gunny never did trash either gun but he DID beleive that over all the Remington 700 was better suited to the job at hand than the winchester. Kinda like Elevators don't make Escalators(sp?) obsolete or trash. both can and do, do the same basic job, and in various applications, or to certain folks (like my wife who can't stand enclosed elevators) one is better than the other, but they do NOT superceed each other.

 

[BusMaster007]

I believe that was the book my friend gave me.
He is a former State Champion shooter who has both Winchester and Remington rifles, including CRF and pushfeed 70's.
He doesn't get hung up on this aspect either.

Not everyone is a "High Master". Not everyone is after Mbogo.
Some guys race Ferrari's. Some guys commute in Ramblers...

Everyone here IS interested in shooting their own rifle and whatever they choose is right in their mind, subject to change without notice.


The magazine article had information about the Remington 700, which is the second rifle Gunny used, as was said above.

The elevator/escalator analogy is pretty good:
If you're going to ride, enjoy it, whichever one you choose to take .