U.S. Court Allows Lawsuit Against Gun Maker

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onerifle

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There goes my blood pressure, just in time for the weekend... :fire: :barf:

SAN FRANCISCO (Reuters) - The chief Western U.S. federal appeals court stood by its decision on Friday allowing a wrongful death lawsuit to proceed against a gun manufacturer.

The 9th Circuit Court of Appeals declined to have a larger en banc panel of judges reconsider its 2 to 1 November ruling that allowed a lawsuit against Glock Inc. and gun sellers. The suit alleges negligence for using a distribution scheme that made it likely their guns would end up in the hands of illegal buyers.

The case stems from the murder of a postal worker, Joseph Ileto, who was shot by a white supremacist. The gunman also shot and injured three young children, a teenager, and an adult worker at a Jewish Community Center in Granada Hills, California during a rampage in 1999.

Relatives of victims filed a lawsuit charging gun makers used negligent marketing strategies that caused their guns to end up in the hands of the wrong people.

A majority of the 9th circuit voted against rehearing the case, although eight judges dissented. The court normally has 26 judges but it does not announce the number who form a majority in a given opinion.

"The potential impact of the panel's decision is staggering," Consuelo Callahan wrote for the dissenting judges. "Any manufacturer of an arguably dangerous product that finds its way into California can be hauled into court in California to defend against a civil action brought by a victim of the criminal use of that product."

"Thus General Motors would be sued by someone who was hit by a Corvette that had been stolen by a juvenile," she wrote.

"The plaintiff would allege that General Motors knew that cars that can greatly exceed the legal speed limit are dangerous, and through advertising and by offering discounts, increased the attractiveness of the car and the number of Corvettes on the road and this increased the likelihood that a juvenile would steal a Corvette and operate it in an injurious manner."

Some gun control advocates hailed the majority's decision to allow the lawsuit to proceed.

"Today's decision is a victory for the victims of this terrible crime, and a powerful rebuke to those who consider 'frivolous' efforts to hold the gun industry accountable for reckless actions," the director of the Educational Fund to Stop Gun Violence, Joshua Horwitz, said in a statement.

© Reuters 2004. All Rights Reserved.
 
Negligent marketing? Guns are some of the least advertised products in the country, unless you count fictional Hollywood and TV shows. And they weren't selling the guns out the back door of the factory.
 
The 9th Circuit Court of Appeals is always an outlier. Fortunately, their decisions are overturned quite frequently.

(P.S. I'm not a lawyer, nor did I stay at Holiday Inn Express last night.)
 
Not having read the pleadings or the decision, Im not in a position to comment one way or the other. Could be right, could be worng.

WildandthepaperdoesntknoweitherAlaska
 
Basically, they want to hold Glock responsible for something that happened well after the gun had left Glock's control. Glock sold it to a distributor, who sold it to a retailer, who sold it to a person, who may or may not have bought it legally. Even if that person did buy it illegally, he/she probably lied on the 4473. Or maybe they just sold it illegally to the white supremacist.

And I have no info on whether the shooter was legally allowed to have a gun or not.

The lawsuit is stupid, and yet another reason why Bill Frist and Co need to be beaten with a Cluebat (TM) for not getting SB 659 passed in a clean form.
 
Lets see they got cigarettes. They are going for fast food & guns. Next will be cars, alcohol, power tools, condoms....
 
WildAlaska writes...

Not having read the pleadings or the decision, Im not in a position to comment one way or the other. Could be right, could be worng.

WildandthepaperdoesntknoweitherAlaska

How could it be right?

Based on your prior anti-rkba posts, I would not be surprised if you did believe gun makers should be sued in situations like this.
 
Unless they can show that Glock shipped handguns to someone who was not a certified, A-OK, US government background checked, FFL holding dealer or distributor, I have to ask how in the hell Glock could be considered at fault by anyone with the brains of a garbanzo bean? Firearms manufacturers are not allowed to sell to anyone who is not an FFL holder. By law they are only allowed to sell to the good guys. There isn't even a way to argue that they were knowingly selling to "bad" FFL holders, as, by definition, an FFL holder is a background-checked "good guy," and if they are not, it would be the BATFE's responsibility, not the manufacturer's to revoke the FFL.
 
Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't this the case where Glock sold the gun to a police department who then traded it to a gun store for a different model, the gun store then sold it to a private collector who then illegally sold it to the whacko-white supremacist with a violent crime record?
 
Isn't this the case where the guy bought the gun legally at a gunshow from a dealer, however, the gun was actually a used police gun that the PD had sold to that dealer. I could be thinking of something else, but isn't that the background on this specific case?
 
I'm curious what is next on the litigious agenda. Sueing the mother of a thirty-five year old man turned murderer for birthing the guy perhaps?
 
The bottom line is still that Glock didn't sell the shooter the gun. Glock sold the gun to a dealer with a valid FFL. Period. To assign legal blame for how the firearm was used two transactions removed from Glock is a pretty damn scarey precident to set, and there are a whole lot of other industries that should be afraid. Very afraid.
 
There is nothing 'right' about it.

How do ya know...you read the pleadings and decsion and analyzed them in accordance with well settled law..or are you gettin your facts from the newspapers...???

Based on your prior anti-rkba posts, I would not be surprised if you did believe gun makers should be sued in situations like this.

Ah jonptoms, me lad, tell em what the situation is in this case that leads ya to make such strong statements..with refernce to what is before the court, not what you have read in the great american press...

PS...if my being against felons owning firearms, agreement with the background checks, discomfort with willy nilly openly carrying firearms and a recogntion that sooner or later the 2nd Am will be intepreted like all the rest of the amendments makes me "anti rkba", then I guess y'all are gonna find that a large portion of gun owners are also anti rkba...as is the general population...I make no apologies for not being as "rkba" as you...

BTW, why waste yer time arguing with me...get out there...do something...fight for the right to keep and bear arms...give a gun to a felon...parade down the street with a machine gun...visit your local Federal courthouse with a gun! Ill kick in for your defense fund...make the law!

Ah but its much easier to turn invective on someone else, neh?


Wild4473formeAlaska


Wild
 
Wild

The suit alleges negligence for using a distribution scheme that made it likely their guns would end up in the hands of illegal buyers.
That "distribution scheme" is your livelihood is it not? So I fail to see how you could even remotely believe that there is any way this suit is justified. There is no way that Glock could market their product with the intention of illegal buyers getting them, unless they're advertising in Felon Today Magazine or something. The ATF would be all over them pretty quick, right?

And what exactly does "4473 for me" mean? Since you are in the firearms business, all I can assume is that you want every firearm transaction in the U.S. to go through an FFL. Well, isn't that nice? I haven't seen anyone in this thread advocate doing away with the background check or even allowing felons to own guns, but I'm sure quite a few people would take exception with what you seem to be implying. Besides, even if that were the law, would it have stopped the murder spree or this idiotic lawsuit?
a powerful rebuke to those who consider 'frivolous' efforts to hold the gun industry accountable for reckless actions
Despite the fact that the reckless actions not only were not perpetrated by the manufacturer in question, but they had absolutely no direct influence one way or the other. How exactly can they be accountable? I can't even think up a story that could support this, with the exception of Glock directly selling the gun to the killer. I think if that were the case, they would have mentioned it by now.

Rick
 
Bufford Furrow was the white supremecist that shot up the Jewish Community Center, and Killed the postal worker in LA.. He was from Washington State and had an FFL license.

Furrow , tried to have himself committed to a mental institution in 1998 because he feared he was going to shoot up a mall and kill people. The hospital he went to had refused voluntary commitment due to his lack of insurance.
He later came back with a loaded gun, the police were called, and he was arrested and committed to the state hospital for 1 year.

The police knew that he had an arsenal, and had an FFL from 1992 to 1995 or they should have, and would if they had checked. When he was released from the hospital he went home (his parents house) and loaded his van with weapons and a couple thousand rounds of ammo and drove to LosAngeles and did the shooting.

Do a search on it and read all about it.

The police who arrested him should have taken his firearms at that time but they did not leading to the incident 1 year later.

Hardly the fault of Glock inc.
 
The hate-filled descent of Buford Furrow
White supremacist's shooting rampage puts state's justice and mental health systems under scrutiny

Friday, September 17, 1999

By HEATH FOSTER
SEATTLE POST-INTELLIGENCER REPORTER






Click here for timeline of Furrow's life to date.

When Buford Furrow Jr. showed up drunk and suicidal at a Kirkland psychiatric hospital one afternoon last October, he couldn't have made his proclivity for violence more obvious.

The stocky, blue-eyed engineer admitted to Fairfax Hospital staff that he had a semiautomatic pistol in his car and that the night before he had fought off a strong urge to open fire at the crowded Alderwood Mall.


Buford booking photo
Furrow's left arm and index finger bore deep wounds inflicted in recent moments of self-hatred. His wallet contained an official membership card of Aryan Nations, a militant Neo-Nazi group that wants to empty the world of Jews and dark-skinned people. And he was talking repeatedly about his fantasy of murdering his ex-wife, a fellow neo-Nazi soldier.

Then, when workers refused to give him his truck keys, he pulled a switchblade and threatened a social worker and the hospital director.

"Give me my f---ing keys (or) . . . I will cut you up," he said. Furrow didn't drop the knife until the third time a King County sheriff's deputy ordered him to do so at gunpoint and then booked him into the King County Jail.

Nine months later, Furrow strolled into the North Valley Jewish Community Center near Los Angeles and opened fire, wounding a 68-year-old receptionist, a 16-year-old counselor and three young boys. Then he killed a friendly Filipino American postman who crossed his path, later saying he did so because the postman's dark skin and employment with the U.S. government made him a "target of opportunity."

On each of the 285 days in between his Fairfax Hospital arrest and his hateful rampage, Furrow was in custody or under the supervision of Washington agencies.

His mental health was evaluated repeatedly -- by psychiatric experts at the King County Jail, Harborview Medical Center and Western State Hospital, as well as by a seasoned King County Superior Court judge, prosecutor and three community corrections officers.

In hindsight, it is easy to conclude that these experts let a plainly dangerous man slip through their fingers. In a brief interview at his Olympia home, Furrow's 66-year-old father said he believed the state failed to give his son help that might have prevented the tragedy.

Furrow's trajectory through Washington's mental health and criminal justice systems is likely to be a central issue in his upcoming trial, given that his team of federal public defenders is widely expected to rely on a mental-health defense.

Furrow spent six weeks in intensive treatment, first at Harborview Medical Center and later at Western State Hospital in Steilacoom, before he began serving time in the King County Jail for his assault at Fairfax.

A review of previously undisclosed records and interviews with many of those involved in his case shows that authorities did consider Furrow's mental illness as they made decisions about the first-time offender's treatment, jail sentence and conditions of his supervised release.

Perhaps naively, those who came into contact with Furrow after he was stabilized, including his attorney, prosecutor, sentencing judge and community corrections officers, decided that he was not likely to reoffend as long as he stayed on his psychiatric medications. For that reason, they did not delve deeply into his white-supremacist history. And they did not take steps that could have kept Furrow in custody longer and under closer scrutiny upon his release. For example:


The King County Prosecutor's Office did not charge him with a second count of assault in the Fairfax incident, which would have added three months to his sentence, or add a deadly-weapon enhancement, which would have tacked on another year.

The community corrections officers who evaluated Furrow before sentencing never requested his hospital psychiatric records as they could have, thus missing information that might have led them to recommend that Furrow stay in mental health treatment after his release.

King County Superior Court Judge Harriett Cody did not require continuing mental health treatment despite a new law that allowed her to do so.

And the community corrections officer who supervised Furrow after his release did not visit Furrow in his home or search his car, as he could have, to see whether Furrow was drinking or amassing weapons and ammunition.
Critics charge that these seasoned professionals had a responsibility to take a harder look at Furrow's mental health and animosity toward minorities, especially given the facts they had available to them.

For example, the presentence investigation that community corrections officers prepared for Cody noted that one of Furrow's Fairfax victims confided the assault was so terrifying that seven months later, she still feared he might seek revenge against them. She emphasized Furrow's white-supremacist beliefs, and warned, "He definitely needs a supervised program."

"It was irresponsible not to get his (psychiatric) records," said Mark Leemon, a Seattle attorney who has successfully sued the Department of Corrections for failing to adequately supervise ex-prisoners before. "Here is a guy who is crazy enough that he is thinking of killing his wife and her friends, is thinking of shooting people in a mall, and has a mental illness that leads him to be involuntarily committed for treatment. I can't imagine that (his psychiatrists and psychologists) would have been thinking that his medications were a panacea, and that as long as he stayed on them, he would be just great."

But other experts question whether mental illness alone drove Furrow's well-planned attack on the day-care center. Sources close to the FBI investigation say agents believe it was pure racism that motivated him.

Other events in Furrow's personal life, such as a failed attempt to reconcile with his ex-wife over the Fourth of July weekend, his intermittent unemployment and the stress of living at home with a mother suffering from Alzheimer's disease, may have played an even greater role in his decision that he had little left to lose.

Even if authorities had done everything possible to keep Furrow under their thumb, there's no certainty they would have prevented the former Aryan Nations first lieutenant from speeding south to Los Angeles to find a place to massacre Jews.

"When something like this happens, there's always the suggestion that somehow government could have prevented it," said David Boerner, professor of criminal law and ethics at Seattle University and a former King County prosecutor who has reviewed Furrow's case. "But I think that misleads the public into believing that we can guarantee a safe world. There's no such thing. There are evil people in the world."




• • •
Under state law, Furrow's psychiatric records are confidential, as is his official diagnosis. But according to Department of Corrections records, he battled serious depression and in recent years had suffered frequent and increasingly severe anxiety attacks.

Police got a clear view of his disturbed mental state in a written confession after his arrest for the Fairfax assault.

"Sometimes I feel like I could lose it and kill people," he wrote. "I also feel like I could kill myself."

Jail psychologists quickly recognized Furrow as someone who needed treatment. At their prodding, within days of his arrest, a specially trained mental health evaluator for King County determined he posed a danger to himself or others, and Furrow was civilly committed for psychiatric treatment at Harborview. He tried to commit suicide there, corrections records show. Later, he voluntarily agreed to extend his treatment at Western State, court records show.

What kind of continuing treatment hospital psychologists and psychiatrists felt Furrow needed is not part of the public record. Nor is it clear how much he shared with them about his extensive past involvement with Aryan Nations.

Groups that monitor the white-supremacy movement believe Furrow became deeply involved in the early 1990s, when he began spending time at the 20-acre compound in Hayden Lake, Idaho, that is a base for Aryan Nations and the Church of Jesus Christ, Christian.

The church, founded by Richard Butler, holds that people of white Northern European descent are the true Israelites tricked out of their birthright by Jews and forced to live with other races. Disciples believe that Jews are the son of Satan, and blacks, but not whites, are descendants of animals.

Eventually, Furrow rose to the rank of first lieutenant in the Aryan Nations security force, according to the Southern Poverty Law Center. It was also on the compound that he met Debbie Mathews, widow of one of the movement's modern martyrs.

Her husband, Robert Mathews, was the founder of the Order, a racist, anti-Semitic group tied to the June 1984 assassination of Alan Berg, an outspoken Jewish host of a Denver radio talk show. Wanted for a number of other crimes, Mathews was killed later that year during an FBI siege of his house on Whidbey Island.

Debra Mathews lived in the bucolic town of Metaline Falls in northeastern Washington, and in 1994 Furrow got a job in nearby Colville at LaDuke and Forge Equipment, a farm machinery company.

Reached at her home last week, Mathews said she didn't want to discuss her relationship with Furrow. But according to Butler, he married Mathews and Furrow in a March 1995 ceremony at the compound.

The two took a romantic honeymoon to Las Vegas, but it didn't take long for the relationship to sour, according to Mathews' neighbor and friend of 20 years, Meda Van Dyke.

On a drive into town about a year after their union, Van Dyke said Mathews complained that Furrow was trying to gain complete control of her life and her finances.

"He wanted to control what she did, and what she spent for, and she just couldn't handle that," Van Dyke, an 82-year-old rancher, remembered.

In December 1995, Furrow was laid off, and during the next few years he lived only sporadically with Mathews in Metaline Falls, Van Dyke said.

In March 1998, Furrow was hired as a design engineer at Northwest Gear, an Everett aircraft-parts maker. That spring, Mathews went over to the coast for a weeklong visit with Furrow, Van Dyke said. Mathews reported having a "lovely time," but that Furrow failed to persuade her then to sell her land and move across the mountains, Van Dyke said.

Depression and suicidal impulses began to plague Furrow more intensely that year until his arrest at Fairfax Hospital last October, court records show.

Because his mental health records are not public, the nature of the treatment he subsequently received at Harborview and Western State is not clear. Ira Klein, director of civil adult services at Western State, said the hospital's goal is to stabilize patients with therapy and medication, and then return them to the community with continuing mental health services.

Furrow returned to jail in early December, when he was arraigned on assault charges. And by the time of his sentencing May 21, Furrow appeared to be a changed man.

Powell, the community corrections officer who evaluated Furrow's case before his sentencing, wrote in abbreviated notes that Furrow then described the assault as "an act of desperation. . . . He was trying to get help. . . . He kept going to hospitals for treatment, but his medication wasn't doing the job. Current medications are working nicely."

Whether psychiatrists agreed with that assessment, Powell never knew, because he didn't review Furrow's mental health records, according to corrections officials.

Powell did note in his report to Judge Cody that Furrow faced some daunting challenges. The assetless Furrow felt a full-time job would "destabilize his condition," yet was not looking forward to living with his father, Buford Sr., who he said suffered from severe depression and his mother Monnie, who was suffering from Alzheimer's disease.

"Furrow confided that he plans to stay at his parents' residence only as long as it took to find his own place," Powell wrote. "He felt that his mother's illness would have counterproductive influence on his peace of mind."

Nonetheless, Powell argued that Furrow had responded well to treatment and was "deserving of some measure of the court's leniency."

At the sentencing, Furrow's public defender, Leona Thomas, also assured Cody that he had been stabilized.

"I think it's one of those situations where the medications made a very dramatic difference very quickly," Thomas said, according to a transcript of the proceedings.

And Furrow offered the court his own sane-sounding mea culpa: "I would like to say I am sorry for what happened. I really feel a lot of remorse for the two women that I assaulted and I have a lot more respect now for the people in the mental-health profession, you know, what they have to go through in dealing with people like myself who are in real bad shape. And I also would like to thank you . . . for getting me up to Harborview and getting me on medications and kind of helping me out. I do feel quite a bit better than I was when I came into the jail system."

State law allowed Cody to sentence Furrow, who had no criminal history, to as many as nine months in jail. If King County Prosecutor Norm Maleng had added an additional assault charge, or a deadly weapon enhancement, Furrow could have faced a sentence of more than two years.

But Dan Donohoe, spokesman for Maleng, defended the decision. He said under the statewide prosecutorial standards his office adheres to, the single assault charge was a good fit for the crime Furrow had committed.

Cody sentenced Furrow to eight months for the assault. He served 165 days because of credit for good behavior. She did not require Furrow to continue with treatment, though she sternly admonished him to stay on his medications.

"It's not within any of our power to make you take your medications," she observed.

She also required him to stay away from his victims, from alcohol and from firearms.

In a recent interview, Cody said that because Furrow's case could potentially come before her again, she could not comment on why she did not take advantage of a 1998 law that allowed judges to require mental health treatment as a condition of release.

Cody stressed that she takes each sentencing decision seriously, but must act within the limitations of Washington laws, which dictate specific sentence ranges for specific crimes.

"There are shortcomings in what I am able to do under the law," she said. "It's not illegal to be a white supremacist."

Once Furrow was released, he moved in with his parents in Olympia, and his case was transferred to Pat Gosney, an experienced community corrections officer dealing with about 75 other cases at the time.

Furrow checked in with Gosney June 16, who noted at the time that Furrow was "taking medications that really help him with his fight against depression."

A few days later, Gosney received a detailed letter from Fairfax Hospital describing the assault on the social worker and hospital director and urging him to make sure Furrow continued with treatment and stayed in weekly contact with his corrections officer.

In early July, Gosney upgraded Furrow's classification from minimum to medium, which meant he would have to meet with Gosney at least twice, instead of once, a month.

Little is known of what Furrow did with his free time this summer. Van Dyke, Mathews' longtime friend, said that Furrow was seen in Metaline Falls over the Fourth of July Weekend.

"He . . . tried to get Debbie to sign over her property and car to him," Van Dyke said. "He was always trying to reconcile with her, but she wouldn't do it."

Furrow's failure to patch up his relationship with Mathews may have contributed to his downward spiral. But when he checked in with community corrections officer Gosney July 6, he was reportedly "in a good mood." Furrow showed Gosney the medications he was taking then, and Gosney discussed counseling options in the community Furrow could explore, according to his notes. He also took a urine sample to see whether Furrow was staying away from drugs and alcohol.

The next day, lab results detected amphetamines or methamphetamine in Furrow's system. Furrow insisted he hadn't been taking the drugs and agreed to have the sample retested at his own expense. The new test had no evidence of anything but the prescribed psychiatric drugs Furrow was taking, and Gosney concluded that the psychiatric drugs might have caused a false positive in the earlier test.

Gosney was impressed by the calm way that Furrow handled the incident and told him so at a July 20 meeting. "I informed (Furrow) that this situation was probably a little tough to deal with, however, it shows positive progress regarding his moods, attitude and anger," he wrote.

Furrow reported to Gosney's office again on Aug. 3, and Gosney again spotted nothing unusual. Furrow "was in good mood . . . no problems to note," he wrote.

Four days later, on Aug. 7, Furrow paid cash for a red GMC van at the Tacoma Kar Korner used-car lot, the same van found outside the North Valley Jewish Community Center in Los Angeles after the shooting.
 
Shouldn't they release the suspect? I mean, it is the gun manufacturer's fault, not the perp.

Lee Malvo must be dancing in his cell- he'll be out soon.
 
Don't you people know that Glock and H&K are inviting gangbangers and other malcontents to their headquarters to market new guns? In between sessions with police, elite counter terrorist units and military special forces the engineers of these companies are moonlighting with Jamal and Tyrone to make sure street gangs are armed with state of the art gats so they can git all up in da liquor store, and buss da cap in yo ass.

Maybe the antis will play up the aryan angle too. Hitler was from Austria and so is Glock so they must be supporting violent white supremecists.

It's all the gun company's fault ! :cuss:
 
maybe I missed something in the stories about the lawsuit, but based in the P-I story, it would seem that the most culpable party in that whole sad story would be the Washington State Department of Corrections/Mental Health, and probably the King County DA's office.

If money's the object, WA state has more money than Glock.

If justice is the object, WA state seems to be the responsible party.

However, that doesn't serve the antis ends. So let's sue Glock. After all, they sold the gun to a distributor, who sold it to a police dept, who traded it to a dealer, who sold it to a citizen, who sold it to Bufford.
 
No real surprise here. IIRC, the 9th Circuit Court is overturned by SCOTUS 80% of the time, when SCOTUS agrees to hear the cases.
 
.
That "distribution scheme" is your livelihood is it not? So I fail to see how you could even remotely believe that there is any way this suit is justified. There is no way that Glock could market their product with the intention of illegal buyers getting them, unless they're advertising in Felon Today Magazine or something. The ATF would be all over them pretty quick, right?


Yowsa yowsa yowsa (and everyone else)..

Read my lips..I didnt say the decision was right...I didnt say the decison was wrong.

I said I didnt know.

Like or or not there are legal pricnciples that govern this lawsuit and any other. As I have not read the pleadings, nor seen the decision, I cant say one way or another.

Why is that so hard to understand...and theer are scenarios where a manufacturer or dealer CAN AND SHOULD be held liable. Even the recently not enacted immunity statute recognizes that.....

Somebody give me a link to the decsion, I will put my lawyer hat on and analyze it for ya...until then, knee jerking aint my bag...

WildreadinthelightmostfavorabletotheplaintifinsomecasesAlaska
 
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