Uberti open top issue

[halfmoonclip]

Recently bought an Uberti open top revo in .38 Special. Great trigger, feels wonderful when thumbed, beautiful thing, but...
Periodically, something binds up, and the cylinder is difficult to turn, either by hand or with the hammer. Then it goes away, utterly and completely, until the next time.
I've removed the wedge, but the barrel refuses to budge on the arbor.
Ideas on the nature of the problem, or a means to remove the barrel?
Thanks in advance,
Moon

 

[James K2020]

Same happened to me with my Open Top. If you point the barrel straight down will the cylinder rotate when cocking? but not do so when level? I re-bent the handspring to make it stiffer. It seemed to keep the cylinder pushed just enough forward so the shell casing wouldn't drag. Even with a tight wedge there still may be a little too much play allowing the cartridges to push back and drag after firing. You can try the washer in the arbor trick too.

 

[halfmoonclip]

Had the notion to give the cylinder a rap with a brass hammer on the muzzle end, which seems to have helped. The darn thing rolls through so smoothly that it's amazing when it chooses to bind up. It's not yet been fired, and yes, the wedge isn't tight.
I'd still feel better being able to actually field strip it.
Moon

 

[thirty-eight]

I've removed the wedge, but the barrel refuses to budge on the arbor.
Ideas on the nature of the problem, or a means to remove the barrel?

I had this issue with an 1851; the barrel had been forced on to the arbor when assembled at the factory with an "interference" fit. I clamped the barrel in my wood vise and tapped (pounded) the frame/cylinder off with a wooden mallet, striking on the front of the trigger guard. I understand the fit is due to distortion from the broaching process of the wedge slot in the barrel. So, I guess the factory just forces the barrel on for final assembly. I did not do any filing, de-burring, or other fiddling around with the arbor after disassembly, instead used plenty of grease and quite a number of on-and-off fittings to mate the barrel/arbor. I own six Uberti open top percussion models, and while they are gorgeous, I lost interest in them after realizing they are made more for display than actual use. In my examples, bolt timing needed correcting, cylinders dead-soft, arbors short, wedges improperly fitted, the list goes on. I kept returning them to the retailer for better examples until I finally tired of the whole process and moved on. They are affordable for a reason.

 

[James K2020]

Open the gate, set the hammer at half cock, and place a 1/2" wood dowel against the cylinder face and tap with a hammer while holding the frame. I've done it holding the revolver in my lap- no need for a vice. Should move the barrel off the frame. I have fit new barrels on the Open Tops, and they can be very tight. It will come on and off with some gentle persuasion.

 

[CraigC]

Most of mine have needed some cleaning up on the inside. Sometimes just a burr in the firing pin hole, usually some crap in the hand slot.

 

[halfmoonclip]

I may fiddle with it a little more, before giving up and contacting Taylor.
Personal, past experience with Ubertis has generally been positive. Have a SAA and a Schofield that I really like.
Moon

 

[Mizar]

Secure the revolver frame in a vise with thick leather padding (leather, nor rubber or some rag...), put on half cock and then take an appropriate sized hardwood dowel, put it on the rear sight and gently tap on it with a small hammer. You can also try to turn the barrel slightly left to right several times.

 

[Jackrabbit1957]

First thing, the arbor is short and should be fixed. Try turning the pistol on it's side and cocking it, then try the opposite side. If it binds the problem is the hand is too narrow and is trying to slip past the ratchet teeth on the rear of the cylinder. It can be fixed by a slight bend in the hand or building up a pad on the outer side.

 

[halfmoonclip]

The maddening thing; the action is smooth as butter, when it doesn't drag.
May have things somewhat under control; took a dowel and hammer, rapped on the cylinder through the loading gate.
James, it didn't noticeably move the barrel, but it seems to have bought me some clearance. I'm thinking the issue is too little clearance for the cylinder.
I'd still like to get the barrel off for cleaning purposes.
Moon

 

[Jackrabbit1957]

And that brings us right back to the short arbor. Also Uberti did try to "wedge mate" the two pieces to keep the barrel to cylinder gap from changing on some models including some of the cap and ball pistols. It's gonna take some effort to get the two apart. Once you do get them separated you'll need to find where it's binding and remove some metal to get a slip fit. While it's apart you can also fix the short arbor by adding washers or shims to get a barrel to cylinder gap around .004 to .006 with empty cartridges in the chambers. Hope this helps.

 

[halfmoonclip]

Jackrabbit, I may try shooting it a bit, to see if it loosens things.
Any other techniques you might suggest to help free the barrel from the arbor?
Before rapping on the rear of the cylinder, I had tried loading some cartridges, and turning the cylinder. It hung at one spot, where it wouldn't turn forward or back, and demanded trying to cock the hammer to free it. Kept it aimed at my bookcase (my usual dry snap target) until I got it freed. I should have told my wife, "Don't worry about any loud noises from the shop....".
This is a PITA, and a new one to me.
Moon

 

[45 Dragoon]

What in the heck is the suggestion of " opening the gate" have to do with anything??? It's not a Ruger for crying out loud!!!!
Take a "close to bore size" aluminum or brass rod maybe even wooden dowel if thats all you have (longer thanthebarrel), drop it down the barrel and smack it good. That's actually in line with the normal "line of force" and it will come apart. Do this over a rug or bed ( unless the wife is home !!)

Mike

 

[halfmoonclip]

I'll answer my own question. Cobbled up a hardwood wedge from a 1/2" dowel, and drove it between the cylinder face and the barrel assembly. It took some solid smacks with a machinists hammer on the wedge, but finally things broke loose. It didn't want to go back on, either, so an hour or so, 'shoe buffing' with fine sandpaper, finally got it to a snug fit.
The binding issue now seems resolved; it was simply too little clearance between the standing breech and the barrel.
.45 Dragoon, point taken, but it would take an almighty stout rod to pass down the barrel; believe me, it took some stout whacking on the wedge to loosen things...
Thanks, gang.
Now to see how it shoots. Finally.
Moon

 

[45 Dragoon]

.45 Dragoon, point taken, but it would take an almighty stout rod to pass down the barrel; believe me, it took some stout whacking on the wedge to loosen things...
Thanks, gang.
Now to see how it shoots. Finally.
Moon

I hear ya and I'm sure it did!! Not trying to be smart but the alignment pins and the arbor are on the same linear plane as far as front to back. Driving a wedge in at 90° to separate them is a chore for sure!! I keep 2 aluminum rods to drive stubborn frames out of barrel assemblies. Been working for 10 yrs. ( might be easier next time).

If the cyl has a gas ring ( sleeve ) on the front of it, that's probably a good place to look as well. As Jackrabbit1957 said, the arbor length needs attention to keep cylinder binding away.

Mike

 

[James K2020]

What in the heck is the suggestion of " opening the gate" have to do with anything??? It's not a Ruger for crying out loud!!!!
Take a "close to bore size" aluminum or brass rod maybe even wooden dowel if thats all you have (longer thanthebarrel), drop it down the barrel and smack it good. That's actually in line with the normal "line of force" and it will come apart. Do this over a rug or bed ( unless the wife is home !!)

Mike

I'm assuming the OP is trying to remove a very tight barrel. Has nothing to do with Ruger. Open the gate, set hammer at half cock so the bolt is down, use wooden dowel with hammer to push the cylinder and barrel forward. Works like a charm. And of course remove the wedge.

 

[halfmoonclip]

James, initial use of your technique didn't solve the problem, but after I'd driven the wedge most of the way into the cylinder/barrel gap, a couple raps using your method popped the barrel the rest of they way off.
.45 Dragoon, the pins weren't a problem; the cylinder arbor was simply too large for the hole in the barrel assembly. This particular gun is nickel plated; one has to wonder if the plating was applied after the gun was built initially. I didn't have a stout enough range rod.
I've seen Jackrabbit's previous posts about arbor length; not sure that is really the issue here. It seems the barrel was simply driven too far on to the arbor. It seems resolved now. There was a slight burr on the firing pin hole in the standing breech, which I cleaned up.
Have a nearby range; if the rain holds off, I'll sneak over and pop some rounds.
This gun is a classic case of falling in love with a gun; even though the swapped Mason-Richards worked well enough. It just wasn't as graceful.
Thanks, gang. Help appreciated.
Moon

 

[45 Dragoon]

I'm assuming the OP is trying to remove a very tight barrel. Has nothing to do with Ruger. Open the gate, set hammer at half cock so the bolt is down, use wooden dowel with hammer to push the cylinder and barrel forward. Works like a charm. And of course remove the wedge.
View attachment 1128112

Yes, I see what you're saying now and I'm sure it works like a charm. It just never occurred to me to use the face of the cylinder ( the front part is the face) as the actual hammering surface against the barrel to "dislodge" it . . . or, the gas ring/ sleeve if your cyl has one.
Dropping a rod down the barrel, through the cylinder to the recoil shield ( recoil shield) seems a less damaging practice.
Whatever makes ya happy . . .



Mike

 

[45 Dragoon]

James, initial use of your technique didn't solve the problem, but after I'd driven the wedge most of the way into the cylinder/barrel gap, a couple raps using your method popped the barrel the rest of they way off.
.45 Dragoon, the pins weren't a problem; the cylinder arbor was simply too large for the hole in the barrel assembly. This particular gun is nickel plated; one has to wonder if the plating was applied after the gun was built initially. I didn't have a stout enough range rod.
I've seen Jackrabbit's previous posts about arbor length; not sure that is really the issue here. It seems the barrel was simply driven too far on to the arbor. It seems resolved now. There was a slight burr on the firing pin hole in the standing breech, which I cleaned up.
Have a nearby range; if the rain holds off, I'll sneak over and pop some rounds.
This gun is a classic case of falling in love with a gun; even though the swapped Mason-Richards worked well enough. It just wasn't as graceful.
Thanks, gang. Help appreciated.
Moon

I agree, the alignment pins probably weren't binding. My point was, the pins are " in line" with the arbor ( front to back , north and south . . . ) Direct force in the same direction ( front to back) wouldn't be nearly as much as driving a wedge in at 90° to separate the two assemblies.

And, the arbor "thing" is a "thing" . I wouldn't shoot 45acp in my '60 Army if it wasn't corrected!

Just trying to help

Mike

 

[James K2020]

Yes, I see what you're saying now and I'm sure it works like a charm. It just never occurred to me to use the face of the cylinder ( the front part is the face) as the actual hammering surface against the barrel to "dislodge" it . . . or, the gas ring/ sleeve if your cyl has one.
Dropping a rod down the barrel, through the cylinder to the recoil shield ( recoil shield) seems a less damaging practice.
Whatever makes ya happy . . .

View attachment 1128163

Mike

The gunsmith at VTI gave me that tip a few years back when I was trying to fit one of their barrels on my Open Top.

 

[halfmoonclip]

The wooden wedge was hard up by the base pin, and the two locating pins came free without drama. It did put lots of pressure in the correct direction at the right spot, and gained some mechanical advantage (very little horizontal movement, compared to the movement of the wedge itself).
Mine is .38, and I don't have a really stout range rod that small. But the idea of pounding in exactly the right direction makes sense.
Took the gun to the range for two quick, full cylinders, and it ran like a watch. Nothing dragged, or bound.
Moon
ETA- James, really like your open top snub.
M

 

[hawg]

The short arbor is definitely a thing with Uberti. Drive the wedge in too deep and the cylinder binds on the forcing cone.

 

[Jackrabbit1957]

With the arbor fix driving the wedge in too far goes away. Each time you take the gun apart and reassemble it the way it is now you have no consistency with the barrel/cylinder gap. Once it's fixed you will have the same pistol every time you put it together. The other issue is the damage to the frame by the arbor not being seated properly.