UK news: Man Who Killed Armed Intruder Jailed Eight Years
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sturmruger
Member
That is the one of the saddest stories I have ever read. I feel sorry for the whole damn nation.
RobW
Member
Good example how to subdue citizens. Without criminals, it wouldn't be that easy to oppress a whole citizenship. Thus, the government is the accomplice of violent criminals.
We have a lot of "Liberals" that want to have us at the same point
We have a lot of "Liberals" that want to have us at the same point
State sponsored persecution of self-defense IS A HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATION.
Unless there's some unreported mitigating circumstance, like the homeownder stabbed the robber after they dropped the gun, or were running away, I guess that throws Agricola's claims of reasonable matching force is still considered justified in the U.K.
(Leaving alone how asinine a standard that is to apply to the victim...)
i.e. burglar brings a club, you can club back, brings a knife, you can stab back, brings a gun... well there are no legal handguns in England, so the criminals won't have one either right?
This guy was already at a mismatch sword vs. gun, and he still got charged, looks like the U.K. court system doesn't even play by thier own rules.
In some U.S. states, ciminals who have an accomplice who dies due to justified self-defense in the comission of a crime can even be charged with murder, manslaughter, negligent homicide etc.
Unless there's some unreported mitigating circumstance, like the homeownder stabbed the robber after they dropped the gun, or were running away, I guess that throws Agricola's claims of reasonable matching force is still considered justified in the U.K.
(Leaving alone how asinine a standard that is to apply to the victim...)
i.e. burglar brings a club, you can club back, brings a knife, you can stab back, brings a gun... well there are no legal handguns in England, so the criminals won't have one either right?
This guy was already at a mismatch sword vs. gun, and he still got charged, looks like the U.K. court system doesn't even play by thier own rules.
In some U.S. states, ciminals who have an accomplice who dies due to justified self-defense in the comission of a crime can even be charged with murder, manslaughter, negligent homicide etc.
El Tejon
Member
Good reminder of Problem #2. No matter what the Yeehaws say there will be consequences for taking a fellow human's life.
P95Carry
Moderator Emeritus
Yeah????????????????? And reflected on whom?? From the info available I'd say there was a total and utter use of ''justifiable force'' - it's called (you paying attention UK freakin Gov?) -- ''SELF DEFENCE!!!! .... what? One onto four? Great odds eh? So maybe he should have decided to let himself be beaten or shot. Hard to believe he ''invited them for coffee''!!!
WHAT is the matter with them there?? Why this emphasis all the time on ''you can't defend yourself''? It makes me mad!
I was spawned in that rat hole of a nation ..... and this embarrasses me .... it appalls me and disgusts me too. Talk about subjugation .... whatever happened to basic rights? Oh I forgot, they have been ''denied''.
Sorry to rant but hell .. this takes the biscuit.
:banghead: Jim March
Member
The BBC still has the "initial story" up:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/2811145.stm
Saturday, 1 March, 2003, 14:04 GMT
Man charged with stabbing murder
A man was due to appear in court on Saturday accused of murdering a 33-year-old man in Greater Manchester.
Stephen Swindells was found in a car park near Gore Street, in Pendleton, Salford, after being stabbed on Thursday night.
Mr Swindells, of Rockley Gardens, Higher Broughton, died from his injuries in Hope Hospital.
Carl Lindsay, 24, of Sandwich Walk, Walkden, was due to appear before Salford magistrates on Saturday charged with his murder.
A 31-year-old man from Farnworth and an 18-year-old man from Bolton have been released without charge.
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Jim again. Looks to me like the cops made the initial bust assuming the swordsman was the assailant, and charged him that way.
Once they realized it was a robbery defense, they didn't want to admit having made a mistake right at the get-go. Betcha anything that's part of the sick psychology involved.
Folks, this is a LOT WORSE than the Tony Martin case. The two idiots that tried to burgle Martin's house weren't armed. Granted, Martin had no way to know that in the dark and "hot burglaries" are extremely dangerous.
Still, in THIS case the assailants were up-front with a gun. Lindsay did NOT break any weapons laws! There is not ONE place in the US that would have given him the slightest legal grief....even the "four stab wounds" is meaningless because contrary to Hollywood, stabs don't have a lot of "stopping power".
This is just...unreal.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/2811145.stm
Saturday, 1 March, 2003, 14:04 GMT
Man charged with stabbing murder
A man was due to appear in court on Saturday accused of murdering a 33-year-old man in Greater Manchester.
Stephen Swindells was found in a car park near Gore Street, in Pendleton, Salford, after being stabbed on Thursday night.
Mr Swindells, of Rockley Gardens, Higher Broughton, died from his injuries in Hope Hospital.
Carl Lindsay, 24, of Sandwich Walk, Walkden, was due to appear before Salford magistrates on Saturday charged with his murder.
A 31-year-old man from Farnworth and an 18-year-old man from Bolton have been released without charge.
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Jim again. Looks to me like the cops made the initial bust assuming the swordsman was the assailant, and charged him that way.
Once they realized it was a robbery defense, they didn't want to admit having made a mistake right at the get-go. Betcha anything that's part of the sick psychology involved.
Folks, this is a LOT WORSE than the Tony Martin case. The two idiots that tried to burgle Martin's house weren't armed. Granted, Martin had no way to know that in the dark and "hot burglaries" are extremely dangerous.
Still, in THIS case the assailants were up-front with a gun. Lindsay did NOT break any weapons laws! There is not ONE place in the US that would have given him the slightest legal grief....even the "four stab wounds" is meaningless because contrary to Hollywood, stabs don't have a lot of "stopping power".
This is just...unreal.
Diggler
Member
Let's annex the U.K.
Think about it... we can just go over there, invade and conquer. It would only take two or three people. If anyone tries to fight back, we'll just have them jailed for attempted murder.
Think about it... we can just go over there, invade and conquer. It would only take two or three people. If anyone tries to fight back, we'll just have them jailed for attempted murder.
Nazirite
Member
Absolutely pathetic, what was the judge and prosecutors thinking. This guy should have been give a medal for removing trash from the street.HankB
Member
The BG was only stabbed? Must not have been a good samurai sword, or Lindsay just didn't know how to use it. Or maybe it was "just" a tanto.
I'd expect a well-made katana could have . . . bisected . . . the miscreants.
Surprised agricola hasn't chimed in yet to defend the verdict against Carl Lindsay. Waiting . . .
I'd expect a well-made katana could have . . . bisected . . . the miscreants.
Surprised agricola hasn't chimed in yet to defend the verdict against Carl Lindsay. Waiting . . .
Any peon that dares infringe on the government's exclusive right to take lives shall be punished harshly! As members of society in similar standing to the mighty government, criminals shall be excluded.
What a sick, twisted place. A single man with a sword is attacking by 4 thugs with a gun, and he goes to jail for 8 years for stabbing one in self-defense. Well, it certainly doesn't surprise me that anti-gunners idolize that place as a utopia... :banghead:
What a sick, twisted place. A single man with a sword is attacking by 4 thugs with a gun, and he goes to jail for 8 years for stabbing one in self-defense. Well, it certainly doesn't surprise me that anti-gunners idolize that place as a utopia... :banghead:
Travis McGee
Member
Un-freaking-believable, even in England!
mussi
Member
I'm - ummm - somewhat surprised.
Here, just 1200 km further to the South, an armed burglar has been okayed by the law to serve as backstop (use a sensible caliber - overpenetration can be laid out as negligence and result in charges) for your continuous training.
Seems to me that the Swiss Army should invade the UK, train the Tommys in real cuisine and implant them some balls.
Here, just 1200 km further to the South, an armed burglar has been okayed by the law to serve as backstop (use a sensible caliber - overpenetration can be laid out as negligence and result in charges) for your continuous training.
Seems to me that the Swiss Army should invade the UK, train the Tommys in real cuisine and implant them some balls.
mussi
Member
I'll not hijack this thread, but remember it's always easier to judge afterwards. Remember that in 1940, Switzerland (and for that reason, any other non-axis country) and any other country would have been beat by the Germans. Cany anybody answer why the Allies didn't bomb the railway to Auschwitz?
Sometimes, arranging yourself with the bully right next to your door is the better part of valor than getting invaded and fighting a bloody 5 year guerilla war. That's maybe why we still own 'dangerous' guns. All other European countries 'liberated' by the Allied in WW2 have strict gun laws? Freedon?
But we're not into a 'what-if' thread, but rather why the Brits even think about sentencing something, that less than 1000 miles further to the south, is regarded as self-defense. Seems like British beef is a predominant dish amongst Brit judges....now let's rather talk how we occupy this country full of pansies, steal their best whisky and make them a Swiss colony so they have to buy our cheese.
Sometimes, arranging yourself with the bully right next to your door is the better part of valor than getting invaded and fighting a bloody 5 year guerilla war. That's maybe why we still own 'dangerous' guns. All other European countries 'liberated' by the Allied in WW2 have strict gun laws? Freedon?
But we're not into a 'what-if' thread, but rather why the Brits even think about sentencing something, that less than 1000 miles further to the south, is regarded as self-defense. Seems like British beef is a predominant dish amongst Brit judges....now let's rather talk how we occupy this country full of pansies, steal their best whisky and make them a Swiss colony so they have to buy our cheese.
StLGlocker
Member
That verdict is just unbelievable. I suppose the Crown would be happier if the homeowner had been killed instead. Stabbing a thug who bursts into your home and sticks a gun in your face is a perfectly reasonable response, and to lock the man up for eight years when all he did was use equal force to defend himself is criminal.
Thank God the founders of this country decided they'd had enough of English rule 228 years ago.
Thank God the founders of this country decided they'd had enough of English rule 228 years ago.
Anyone else notice that the defender (victim) is referred to by only his last name, "Lindsay", while the BG is referred to as "Mr Swindells"?
Obviously, the criminals are more deserving of the media's respect than are the victims.
R-Tex12
Obviously, the criminals are more deserving of the media's respect than are the victims.
R-Tex12
Cooter Brown
Member
Question:
Was Mr. Lindsay convicted by a panel of Judges, or by a jury of his peers? Unfortunately, it has been my experience that once the state prosecutors choose to charge a person with an crime, no matter how absurd, the defendant's butt is in a major sling--juries rarely acquit!!! Never underestimate the stupidity and cruelty of the general populace. :banghead:
Was Mr. Lindsay convicted by a panel of Judges, or by a jury of his peers? Unfortunately, it has been my experience that once the state prosecutors choose to charge a person with an crime, no matter how absurd, the defendant's butt is in a major sling--juries rarely acquit!!! Never underestimate the stupidity and cruelty of the general populace. :banghead:
igor
Member
mussi, I hear you up here...
To the point, this is an extreme outrage, if we're seeing all the facts available. *** was that BS about "severity of circumstances" anyway? Administratese for "we're on a highway to hell and don't you think anyone can change that course"?
To the point, this is an extreme outrage, if we're seeing all the facts available. *** was that BS about "severity of circumstances" anyway? Administratese for "we're on a highway to hell and don't you think anyone can change that course"?
iamkris
Member
I'd very much like to see if anyone from the UK has more detailed information on this case.
If so, let's see it.
If the facts are as they appear above, I DARE anyone from the UK (or anywhere else) to explain this one away.
The UK is a shell of what it once was. Yes I'm generalizing but there are very few left there who have the sense of a drunken marmot when it comes to personal liberties or self defense.
I've done a fair amount of travelling in my short life and have been thoroughly disgusted by the amount of freedoms traded in for a false sense of "government nanny-hood" by people of other countries...:banghead:
If so, let's see it.
If the facts are as they appear above, I DARE anyone from the UK (or anywhere else) to explain this one away.
The UK is a shell of what it once was. Yes I'm generalizing but there are very few left there who have the sense of a drunken marmot when it comes to personal liberties or self defense.
I've done a fair amount of travelling in my short life and have been thoroughly disgusted by the amount of freedoms traded in for a false sense of "government nanny-hood" by people of other countries...:banghead:
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