(UK) Police demand "remote kill switch" for cars

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lapidator

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Oh, no. That would never happen...

Looks like i'll just have to keep on buying my dumb-guns as fast as I can.

Police call for remote button to stop cars

Motorists face new 'Big Brother' technology

Juliette Jowit, transport editor
Sunday December 21, 2003
The Observer

After speed cameras, road humps and mobile phone bans, there could be more bad news for Britain's motorists. Police are urging Ministers to give them the power to stop vehicles by remote control.
In what will be seen as yet another example of the in-creasing power of Big Brother, drivers face the prospect of their cars being halted by somebody pushing a button.

The police lobby is being led by Superintendent Jim Hammond of Sussex police, who chairs an Association of Chief Police Officers technology working group which is examining the idea.

'Providing an effective means to remotely stop a vehicle is fast becoming a priority,' Hammond told a European conference. 'The development of a safe and controlled system to enable remote stopping has the potential to directly save lives.'

However, Bert Morris, deputy director of the AA Motoring Trust said: 'People don't like the idea of Big Brother taking over their driving. In years to come that might be acceptable, but it's very, very important that there's a step-by-step approach.'

Cars could be stopped by the gradual reduction of engine power so it slowly comes to a stop, or by making sure when drivers come to a halt they can not move again.

Stopping cars remotely sounds futuristic, but the basic technology is already available and used in lorries to limit the top speed to 56mph and in new systems to immobilise stolen cars.

The key is the electronics box in most new cars which, when the driver presses the accelerator or brake, sends a message to the engine to speed up or slow down. It can be programmed to limit the speed generally or according to the position of the car, established via a GPS satellite. For remote operation, a modem, which works like a mobile phone, can be used tell the car to slow down or stop.

Similar radio telemetry was used by Formula One pit crews to adjust the engines of racing cars at up to 200mph - until it was banned this year.

'The technology exists and will become more refined as time goes on,' said Nick Rendell, managing director of the Siemens business developing this technology in the UK.

A senior police officer - assumed to be the chief constable or deputy - can already give the order to stop a car remotely, but that power has rarely if ever been used, said Morris. To use any new powers more widely, police must first overcome some practical problems to reassure Ministers that vehicles would be stopped safety. Ministers will also want reassurances that drivers would not be mistakenly stopped.

ACPO insists that it would only introduce the technology when it was safe. It is calling on the Government to introduce the legislation which it says will be vital to stop vehicles when - as expected - manufacturers develop tyres that run when they are flat. This will make 'stingers' - the spiked strips thrown in front of speeding cars - useless to stop stolen and get-away cars or dangerous drivers.

It is also linked to pressure to make cars 'pointless to steal' because of growing concern about more violent car crime as vehicles become harder to take. The RAC Foundation recently found there were as many as 1,200 car jackings in Britain last year.

Another link is to technology which would stop cars going above certain speed limits - either a fixed maximum such as 70mph, or varying according to the local limit.

The system could even be programmed to reduce speeds below the limit in bad weather or when school children were expected to be about, said Robert Gifford, director of the Parliamentary Advisory Committee on Transport Safety, which believes the technology could cut the 3,420 deaths a year on Britain's roads by 59 per cent.

Experts now believe the technology could start to be used voluntarily by the end of the decade and ultimately could be made mandatory.

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,6903,1111211,00.html
 
As someone pointed out on the other thread, how long would it take for a kid to figure out how to build one of these car zappers? Could you imagine the chaos that would result during rush hour? Please don't say that only the police would have these devises. If 2 15 yearold kids in a garage in Oklahoma can hack the Defense Dept; the Justice Department, and the F.B.I.'s most secure computer systems, they can figure out this box too.
 
When carbureted engines and throttle cables are outlawed. . . . .

I thought the goofiest quote was this guy:
However, Bert Morris, deputy director of the AA Motoring Trust said: 'People don't like the idea of Big Brother taking over their driving. In years to come that might be acceptable, but it's very, very important that there's a step-by-step approach.'

So the head of the AA (which I assume is something like the AAA, only a third less good) says it's actually a good idea, they should just be sneakier about how they introduce it! :banghead:
 
Ok, I'll install one of these on every MP's car, and we can test it. They take off and try to negotiate a curve to the right, in the right lane, at 120kph, after I've killed their engine, and thus their power steering. That would certainly stop this, and would probably be a service to the Brits.
 
That reminds me, must look after my old VW camper (vanagon in the states?), no electronics, no air bags, no CPU just cables and switches.
Who says newer is better, sometimes the old ways are best.

Welcome to the United Kingdom : please deposit your free will in the receptical provided :fire:
 
Ky Larry

Already been done.
I believe, based on discussions/research that
On-Star can ALREADY 'turn the car off' - as
well as track position, lock/unlock, record
car parameters (speed, G- loads, braking/accell etc.)
Bypassing/defeating/hacking this stuff is childs
play to some people.
OLD story - in the 70's when VM had introduced
'processor controlled' fuel injuction a CB with a
sideband (a signal amplifier of sorts) would
scramble the 'computer' at close range causing
fuel to stop when the 'press to talk' key was
depressed.
Some people thought is was funny to follow one
while repeatedly keying the mike and causing
the VM to run/stop in rapid succession.
 
Brits have had remote onboard car deactivation technology for years. It's called Lucas electronics and they automatically armed as they left the factory. Hopefully Lucas will get the contract for the new systems.

Within a month criminals will have cars with the system deactivated and have computer hacks capable of stopping a hapless victim's car at an appropriate remote location. When fast cars are outlawed...
 
I would love to see someone try to steer their car when their engine dies, or stop in many situations. Your brake booster only has so much reserve capacity.

I imagine I could disable almost any system. The only way I could not is if the car always broadcats an "all is well" signal. Even if it did someone would figure out how to fake the system, and anyone could wire their own way to disable it, and broadcast what ever signal was needed. I doubt they will get that complex, but I could be wrong. They would need check points or sensors to see how many cars there were compared to the signals sent to see if any cars were silent.

They will get my motorcycle when they pry it from my cold dead hands.
 
Dustind:
I would love to see someone try to steer their car when their engine dies, or stop in many situations.
I had that happen to me once, fuel pump died on the '87 minivan I was driving at 55mph, probably had my license for ~4 years at that point. It got really interesting for a little while, I didnt know what the heck happened as the car shut down instantly (no tach and a 4cyl so there wasnt much power or noise to begin with, so no clues as to if I had lost the instrument panel, electricity, tranny, engine or what). Luckily opposing traffic was very light and I was able to wrestle the van across the road and into a church parking lot. When I tried to brake, the pedal sinking to the floor was really comforting and my face probably looked like this -> :what: . I almost put my foot through the floor trying to stop the car before I hit the cemetary wall, luckily I was able to stop and didnt hit the wall. No power steering, and no power brakes was quite frightening for a ~20 year old in a vehicle with no airbag and a stone wall fast approaching.

If opposing traffic had been heavy, I would have been in a whole heap of trouble, as my shoulder was non-existant and I had somebody tailgating me, I wasnt sure if I even had brake lights.

Suffice to say, in my opinion: Remote kill switch = BAD idea, especially concerning all the crappy drivers out there.

Kharn
 
As Navy Joe said, Lucas has built diasbling electronics for years. Years ago,I rode Brit motorcycles (Nortons, Triumphs,BSAs). They all had Lucas electrical systems. As anyone who has owned a vehicle with Lucas electricals can tell you, they will disable themselves. I can guarantee that you will have a Brit motorcycle leaned into a curve at night at 70mph and the entire electrical system will fail(no lights, dead engine). :what:
 
I would love to see someone try to steer their car when their engine dies, or stop in many situations.
They could set it up similar to the cars used by LEOs to trap car thieves. Once the signal is received, the car shuts down the next time it comes to a complete stop.

They would, of course, need to install the device in police cars as these cars can also be stolen and used in criminal activities. I bet the BGs would love having a pirated transmitter that would shut down any police cars chasing them.
 
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