Unattached pistol stock?

[cluttonfred]

Does anyone know if it is legal to use an unattached "shooting brace" with a pistol under U.S. law?

I have in mind a simple wire stock, or a holster stock, in which there is no physical attachment between gun and stock, just a sort of hollow grip in which the pistol grip sits and you wrap your hands around the whole thing, with the stock grip sandwiched between your hand and the pistol. Something like this:

If you were to loosen your grip, the pistol would fall to the floor as it is just resting against the stock and not attached to anything. I can't believe that I am the first person to think of this, so it must be illegal, but I just thought I'd ask.

It seems to me that there would be definite tactical uses for such an accessory, and it would be very handy for, say, using a .22 pistol as a survival tool.

Thoughts?

 

[cluttonfred]

I have since found this reference in the regs:

ATF P 5300.4 - Federal Firearms Regulations Reference Guide 2005
(Revised - 9/05)

IV. Additional Information​

C. Questions and Answers​

(M24) If a person has a pistol and an attachable shoulder stock, does this constitute possession of an NFA firearm?

Yes, unless the barrel of the pistol is at least 16 inches in length (and the overall length of the firearm with stock attached is at least 26 inches). However, certain stocked handguns, such as original semiautomatic Mauser "Broomhandles" and Lugers, have been removed from the purview of the NFA as collectors' items.

[26 U.S.C. 5845, 27 CFR 479.11]​

If anyone has any experience with this topic, please do let me know, otherwise I guess I would have to ask ATF directly.

 

[Vonderek]

Disclaimer: I'm not an expert on ATF minutae.

I think that once the pistol grip is in the hollowed out cavity of your proposed brace then the brace becomes an attached stock.

 

[MachIVshooter]

I would write ATF's firearms technology branch on that one. You might be OK, since the stock is not actually attached to the handgun and would simply fall away if you released your grip. There are lots of funny little exlusions from NFA regs like that, such as manually powered trigger cranks and triggers that fire once on pull and again on release. But I wouldn't proceed with it until you get a letter from them saying there's not a problem.

 

[rcmodel]

Handgun stocks aren't all they are cracked up to be anyway.

Unless made overly long, your pistols sights are too close to the eye to look like they should look. (rear notch gets too wide for good alignment)

It might be interesting to study military use of handgun stocks.
It has been tried throughout history, without any degree of success.

If it worked, every M9 Beretta issued would come with a shoulder stock attachment.
They don't!

In modern times, the only legitimate use is in conjunction with full-auto machine pistols. They prove most useful in recoil control in that application, but don't help sight alignment to any huge degree.

Some folks have good luck with a lanyard.
When adjusted to the proper length and the gun pushed out until the lanyard is tight, you end up with 3-point support, and good sight definition.
And there is no gray area in the law about using them that way.

rcmodel

 

[Josh Aston]

Not a new idea at all. Some one made these a while back for the Ruger Mk II, possibly some other pistols. Don't think there were any legal issues, it just wasn't very marketable.

 

[Gator]

What Josh said.

P.S. A lanyard works just as well.

 

[Carl N. Brown]

I have also seen a shoulder brace that straps to the shooter's wrist rather than attach to the gun.

 

[bannockburn]

Owlnmole

Back in the early '80's, Freedom Arms sold a separate shoulder stock assembly called the Steady Aim. It was a two piece aluminum design that consisted of a cradle like grip assembly which manually held the gun in place. The other section provided the shoulder stock portion, along with a cheek rest. It was considered a non-secured shoulder stock, and was supposedly exempt from BATF regulations. It retailed for around $46.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

Handgun stocks aren't all they are cracked up to be anyway.

Unless made overly long, your pistols sights are too close to the eye to look like they should look. (rear notch gets too wide for good alignment)

Exactly -- my design for a shoulder stock for my Colt Woodsman would require me to hold the gun at full arm's length -- exactly as I hold it in a modified Weaver grip -- but with the added support of a stiff stock.

 

[Philbacca]

They have them in Israel

In my two trips to Israel I have seen alot of the style stocks drawn in the picture. Alot of security and police have them on their pistols. I have never seen anything like them here. I have tried to get a picture but could never get a good shot of them.

 

[cluttonfred]

Thanks, Philbacca, I did some fishing via Google and I think this is the item you are describing:

FAB Tactical Stock for Glock


And here is a link to the manufacturer's web site:

Fab Defense


And their U.S. distributor:

The Mako Group


That's the good news...the bad news is that their stock (attached) would make your pistol a short-barreled rifle under U.S. law.

 

[Jim K]

BATFE has sometimes changed their collective minds, but at one time they said that if there was no mechanical attachment, the stock was no "attached". That was specifically on a stock held to the grip of a pistol by the hand, exactly as described.

FWIW, the noise and blast of a big caliber handgun fired with a shoulder stock makes the idea a bit less attractive, plus the gun will not shoot to point of aim, the recoil acting differently with the stock involved, even if held on.

Jim

 

[bannockburn]

Jim Keenan

I'm pretty sure that was the direction Freedom Arms took with their Steady Aim detached shoulder stock. Although they designed it for use with either pistols or revolvers, I think most reviews and tests involving its usage were typically done with .22LR pistols.

 

[mgregg85]

http://www.makosecurity.com/Merchan...OD&Product_Code=GLR17_440&Category_Code=_STKS

I don't care about the stock but where can I get one of those glock mag holders that sits on the picatinny rail?

That would work great as a front grip/spare mag on my sub-2000

 

[cluttonfred]

The magazine holder/grip seems to be on the FAB manufacturers site but not the MAKO distributor's site. You could shoot an e-mail to FAB to ask if anyone distributes them in the USA.

There are folding and fixed foregrips without magazines for a Picatinny rail on the MAKO site. Be careful, on the SUB 2000 it's not an issue, but I think a foregrip on a pistol qualifies it as an SBR.

 

[MachIVshooter]

Be careful, on the SUB 2000 it's not an issue, but I think a foregrip on a pistol qualifies it as an SBR.

AOW

 

[Philbacca]

Thanks, Philbacca, I did some fishing via Google and I think this is the item you are describing:

FAB Tactical Stock for Glock


And here is a link to the manufacturer's web site:

Fab Defense


And their U.S. distributor:

The Mako Group


That's the good news...the bad news is that their stock (attached) would make your pistol a short-barreled rifle under U.S. law.
__________________

Cool Owlnmole. That is basically what I saw. I think most were metal but designed like that. I wanted to ask about them but asking an Israeli on guard in East Jerusalem about his (or her) gun tends to make them nervous!

 

[kcatton]

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