Under-oiling?.....and shooting in the rain.

[9mmMike]

I had the pleasure of shooting in the pouring rain yesterday with a couple friends. We successfully saved the world from a horde of vicious clays with nary a survivor from the 430 flying adversaries.
During this exercise I had two small hiccups with my normally rock-solid 870's.
One locked up a couple times, as in would not extract/eject. I was not too worried about that and I just spent a little extra time during cleaning to make sure that the chamber was good and de-gunked. It could have been the soggy shells and the hot gun as well.
The other 870 had what I have seen now on two of my guns and that is a failure to feed due to the lifter not coming up far enough or fast enough to keep the shell from nailing the bottom of the edge of the chamber on the forward stroke.
I am beginning to wonder if perhaps I am under lubing the entire trigger assembly and am causing this problem via ignorance.
The only weapon that I shoot as often (actually more often) than my 870's is my Glock 26. This fabulous pistol runs flawlessly on very little lube and I have developed a habit (maybe a bad one) of shying away from too much oil in my guns.
Could this be a problem for my 870's?
It was raining pretty good while we were shooting and I guess the guns could have been washed out but it's not like they were under water or anything.
Shooting in the rain was a hoot by the way and we had quite the audience of light-weights sitting out the rain in their trucks watching us obliterate those pesky clays.
Also as an aside, my 870's all wear the el'cheapo Express finish and wood furniture. They waited for several hours before I could get to clean them and they've not a single speck of rust. These things live on CLP and SLIP 2000.
That's it,
Mike

 

[sm]

870's IMO tough, well made guns.

No lube, don't worry about it. Rain -same deal.

I can't tell you many times I have shot in Rain, freezing rain, sleet , snow, freezing temps. This was Skeet tournaments, duck huntin' another story.

I have ON purpose degreased my guns (Zippo lighter fluid) and easily ran 5 boxes. 870's ,model 12's,1100's and the venerable Super X model 1. Kinda weird to yell "pull" with an icicle on the bbl.

Main concern is chambers. I may not clean for 500-750 rds, but my chamber was cln and dry.

Done this with other platforms, firing pins do freeze up.

 

[Hkmp5sd]

I'd guess too much oil/lube. Take the normal shot residue, add some dust/dirt from the range and a good amount of rainwater and you can make a pretty good sticky paste. Let that work into the moving parts and combine it with lubricant and heat from shooting and parts can get stuck or free movement blocked.

 

[JohnBT]

The manual for my 870 Express says to spray the trigger group with Rem Oil, let it sit for awhile and then shake off the excess. That's all I've ever done to clean the trigger group and I've haven't had any trouble with it at all.

The rest of the gun gets soaked in BreakFree and Sheath (and saltwater) when I go duck hunting. I do use waterproof shells though and haven't tried target loads in a driving rain.

John

 

[HSMITH]

Trigger group DRY, action DRY, no visible oil anywhere. I intentionally do not oil any part of the action or the trigger group, I wipe a little oil on and then I wipe it right back off leaving the slightest coating.

100% of the problems I have had with the 870 have been caused by EXCESS oiling. They work best DRY.

Very few guys are going to agree with me on how I prep and use my 870, but then again very few use the 870 the way I do, and even less use the 870 extensively in the conditions I use it in.

I think hkmp5sd is right on target as to why your 870 sputtered on you. Take a can of gunscrubber or contact cleaner (plastic safe only) and hose out the trigger group thoroughly. Wipe on some RemOil (garbage, but works for this) in the trigger group with a Q-Tip, then wipe it out after it has had a chance to migrate around a little. Oil the trigger group the next time you are in the rain or the gun is submerged, or after 1000+ rounds have been shot. Clean only if wet or 1000+ rounds have past.

 

[sm]

Agree with Hkmp5sd and HSMITH

Excess lube causes too many problems in any platform. The old advice "if you can see or feel the oil, you've used too much" is spot on. In any weather/climate/temp IMO.

We didn't know about Spray degreasers per se in my younger days, Zippo lighter fluid was easy. Kerosense or gasoline to do the strip down ,detail get it clean practice. (when soaking ,gas at .18 a gal cheaper than Hoppe's No. 9)

I ran autoloaders and never had a problem, if this advice shared will work on a semi--reason stands its gotta be a snap with a pump.

RIG grease on exterior (receiver, bbl) protects from elements, used it back then,still use today.

 

[Dave McCracken]

HHHhhmmmm....

You've had probs with the lifter on the one before, IIRC, Mike. I'm no smith but since it happens once in a while, I think there's a bit of grunge buildup there.

As for the other one, check the bolt recess on the barrel extension for grunge and place one drop of lube on each action bar just in front of the receiver and work a few times.

HTH....

 

[riverdog]

Excellent thread on proper lube for an 870. I would have followed the Remington operators manual (available online BTW) but I don't use Rem Oil, so I put a bit of FP-10 on a cleaning patch and wiped down the trigger group, leaving a thin film. When cleaning I put a drop of FP-10 on each action bar and that's it. FP-10 is a CLP and doesn't build up from what I've seen. It's an excellent lube.

I've had no problems, but I keep it grunge free and don't shoot in the rain. Being in CA, rain is usually not an issue, but I won't always be in CA.

 

[9mmMike]

OK. I have the trigger assy. out and sitting in my lap. It does not look gunked up or over lubed to me but I am about to go and shoot the snot of it with some gunscrubber.
I am not getting the wipe on, wipe off thing though. The trigger group is mucho filled with nooks and crannys. How can you wipe on/off such a complex surface?
Thanks,
Mike

edited due to no patience.

I could not wait to put it together so I put a dab of CLP on a paper towel and ran it over the surfaces of things that I thought might rust. I did not oil any hinge points or any moving bits at all.
It sure "feels" gritty now.
With luck, I'll be out again this weekend to test 'er out.

Mike

 

[VG]

Are there any lubrication points other than the trigger assy? Nothing for the bolt or other moving parts?

 

[sm]

Yeah, if you have screw-in chokes, put RIG + P on the threads and tighten finger snug.

If you have fixed choked bbls....you can skip it. Yeah I like the fixed choked bbls...

Back in Jan of 2004 I brought home a new 870. Took it all apart. Sealed the end grain with Tru- Oil, applied RIG to stock bolt. I had cleaned the gun to remove all factory lube and gunk. I used RIG+P on the screw- in choke tube, I used a Pipe cleaner and "touched " a spring here and a hinge there" in the TG.
[I mean "touched" literally]

All I have done is feed it shells, do mount and dryfire drills , wipe off exterior with a RIG Rag.

Wait I did clean the chamber once - maybe twice....yeah twice because the gun had over 350 rds run through it one day. 2k rds in one 7 day period. Scotchbrite pad on a brush. Every so often I pipe clean the extractor and boltface ...maybe a M16 style brush was used.

I figure Jan 2005 I'll see if it needs something. 12 months or 12K rd checkup.


uh- oh some fellow with BA/ UU/ R on his T shirt is coming my way with a 2x4

 

[9mmMike]

Holy old-post batman!

Since the original post, my 870 collection has grown and a couple 1100's have joined the fold.

I now spend extra time with 000 wool on the chambers of my 870's with the exception of the one barrel that I had modified by Vang as it is already smooth as glass.
I have not had a shell lock up any gun in a coon's age.
As far as the lifter problem....
I have a tendancy to move parts around between guns. I have bought all my Remingtons used (some well-used) and they are all a hodge-podge of parts that I moved around until they all worked.
I did have one gun that gave me some trouble that turned out to be a trigger group. It had a bent part (action bar lock) that would pop over the left side action bar and stop the next shell from traveling rearward. I tweaked that with a vise and pliers (it's my favorite 870) and all is well.

I took a buddy out yesterday with my DNC-inspired EBSG (loaner) and my old favorite and the fellow using the EBSG had a couple hiccups that seemed like the gun was not extracting smoothly. I traded my favorite to him for the day and had no real trouble so I'll have to chalk that up to user-error although I must admit that he had no trouble at all with my old favorite so go figure.

Anyhoo, it seems like ages since I originally posted this thread and I've emptied thousands of shells since then. Thanks to folks on this board and the old and new TFL, I can hardly remember the days before I had my cherished 870's.

The 16 ga. Wingmaster that I built for Mrs. 9mmMike is still probably my favorite here at casa 9mm though she does not let me shoot it much. LOL Just kidding, she'd let me shoot as often as I wished but I've so little 16 ga. ammo around and since my own old 870 just get better every time I shoot it, I figure each missed opportunity to use it to turn money into noise is missed fine-tuning.

While I'm in here, thanks to all who have been there to answer my tyro questions...

Mike

 

[Dave McCracken]

Glad to hear your glitches are history, Mike. 16 gauge ammo is hard to come by, but not impossible. A MEC 600 can ease logistics greatly.

Re swapping parts, there's few movable pieces of an 870 one shouldn't move. Remington says that TGs are sized to a given receiver and not to swap them. Be that as it may, I've moved a couple without trouble.

 

[9mmMike]

The only gun that I have with original parts is the 1100 Special Field 20 ga. that belongs to Mrs. 9mmMike.
Everything else has a different set of stocks, barrel, trigger group, action bars, extension, mag spring & follower.
Even the 16 ga. WM that I bought for 25.00 was only a receiver and needed everything except an ejector and left side shell latch.
Like I said, I buy these well-used (affordable) and they have all required some TLC. I suspect that a couple might have been problem-children that the prior owners were glad to see go. They are all working great and looking good now though and I was glad to give them a home.
Ha! My new motto, "Adopt an 870 today".
Maybe I can get some bumper-stickers made.........

Mike

 

[VG]

Mike, I just dredged this thread up because I was wondering about lube on my recently inherited 870 Wingmaster. Ratger than start a new one.

Shot 25 rounds at the range Saturday, great fun. I wish it was easier to convert the safety to left-hand, the shucking doesn't bother me (used to it) but the safety isn't fast for a lefty.