Underhammer rifle

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baranjhn

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Hello,

I've only shot blackpowder a few times, but I finally decided I need a rifle. Anyway, I've been cruising the auction sites looking for a used underhammer rifle in my price range (around $175), but I haven't had any luck yet. Does anyone have any suggestions on where else to look?

Thanks

John
 
First off, the underhammers are excellent guns, I own two of them. Second, you probably are going to have to keep looking since they are kind of getting hard to come by. Deer Creek used to sell some very good underhammer rifle kits, but they stopped selling them a few years ago and I don't know if there are any plans to resume operations. H&A rifles still surface occasionally, I picked up one of the 45 caliber H&A carbines on an auction site last year for $100, but that is probably the exception, you probably are going to be looking closer to $200 when you get one. The one problem that they do possess is that the cap flash can burn your hand so wear long sleeves or some kind of glove to protect your wrist when shooting them. Good, luck, I have really enjoyed mine.
 
About the only underhammers I know of that are still available are from the folks at Blue Grouse (underhammers.com). Their kits are $255 which is a good value, but a little higher than you wanted to pay, and you still need to put it together. They're not hard to build though. Most a little sanding on the wood and applying finish and bluing.

If you keep looking on the auction sites, you might get lucky with a used one, but I don't see many on the market. I check regularly, so if I see something, I'll be sure to let you know.
 
Hi Demonic... er... Plink

Those underhammer rifles at Blue Grouse sure look tempting. What is the process of browning the metal parts like?

When you compare an underhammer rifle with say, a Hawken or similar percussion rifle, the striking thing is the underhammer is so slim and the Hawken is so beefy. That raises the question (in my feeble mind) "How can the underhammer be so svelte and still stand up to the trauma of being fired?"
Are they known for the buttstocks working loose or some other "loosening" of "vitals"? :confused:
 
All right it's about time I wrote on this topic in person. I built a 45cal Deer Creek kit (Same as Blue Grouse sells) about 7 years ago. The assembly was very simple. Finish I used was from Brownells a cold browning solution (it works better when you warm the parts). Wood was finished w/ Formby's Ting oil then hand rubbed with bee's wax. The biggest difficulty I had was with the trigger. When first assembled the trigger wasn't safe. It wouldn't hold @ half cock & at full cock it would trip with the slightest bump. After I cleaned up the forgings recut & polished the sear & trigger interface it has a beautiful smooth & safe trigger.

So now you know why I wasn't too eager to sell!
 

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Hi Kent...

Do you just warm the metal and then paint the browning solution on? Do you have to immerse the metal parts in solution and watch the clock for some specified time? How do you make sure the browning comes out dark enough and even enough to look good?
I've tried Birchwood Casey's bluing solution on assorted gun parts and have always had terrible results with that - so am a bit reluctant to think I can "brown" an entire rifle unless Brownell's works differently and/or a LOT better than the Birchwood Casey bluing stuff.
Thanks for your help!!!
 
Shawnee
To tell the truth I don't remember All I did on the browning process. I do remember using a hair dryer & a large cardboard tube to warm the barrel (it got too hot to touch). The small parts I did in a thrift store stainless sauce pan on the kitchen stove (wife= :fire: ). But it worked well.
 
Hi Kent...

What's the barrel length on your rifle?
Is it a .45 or a .50?
Do you shoot it a lot? Is it pretty accurate? Are the sights good?
Have you hunted with it? or Would you hunt with it?
How easy/difficult is it to clean?
Is the ignition pretty reliable?
What length-of-pull is the stock?
Can you keep good cheek pressure on the stock when aiming/firing?
Is there anything you don't like about it?

Many thanks!!! :)
 
Shawnee, the browning process is very easy. The easiest and most durable of the ones I've tried is Laurel Mountain browning solution. It also doesn't require the metal to be absolutely spotlessly degreased nor heated, so it's not as easy to make a mistake with. All you do is find a humid spot. Some use a bathroom and run a hot shower for a few minutes to make steam. I use a spare closet with some damp rags and a small electric heater. Basically, you just apply the solution and let it rust for a few hours, then dust off the rust with steel wool and repeat. After a few repetitions, the color begins to show and you continue until you like what you're seeing. If you have a nice warm, humid area, you can repeat as often as every 2-3 hours. It takes me about 12 hours between repetitions. About 8-10 times and you're done. Neutralize with baking soda water, oil and enjoy!

The underhammer design is quite strong because it has an actual "receiver" rather than a bunch of seperate assemblies bedded into a stock. I don't know of any issues with recoil. The Blue Grouse folks will make them in monster sizes including 4 bore! Yeow!

The design also lends for great accuracy, as there's no stock pressure on the barrel like in a sidelock. Wood pressure can change according to humidity and that can play havoc with accuracy. The underhammer is about as close to a true free floating muzzleloader as you're likely to find in a traditional design.
 
Hi PLink...

Thanks Plink!!!

I sent an email off to Blue Grouse yesterday asking a fistful of questions but haven't heard back from them yet. Will post anything of interest that turns up!

Thanks again for the process tips and the cue to Laurel Mountain!
 
Shawnee, I'd sure be interested in what you find out. An inline kit is definately in my near future. Well, as soon as I catch up on the projects I'm working on now. Geez, I have 2 rifle kits being built (another Investarms Hawken for me and a GPR for my mom's pastor), a .22 target rifle getting pillar bedded in a new stock, 2 rust balls being restored for friends who'll probably just let them rust up again, 2 rifles coming in for repair, and an SKS "paratrooper" that I'm civilianizing and free floating to make a nice brush carbine. I think it'll be a while! LOL
 
Hi PLank et al...

Whew!!! after a frustrating couple weeks trying to get in touch with Blue Grouse Co. I finally talked to the guy on the phone today about the underhammer rifles and pistols. Not good news.:(

His website has not been updated in more than about five years. Due to his parts supplier shutting down and to recent government taxing changes he no longer has the underhammer guns or kits available and builds only "wallhangers" that are incapable of firing. The "wallhangers" are capable of being made "fire-able" but you have to do (or contract) all the machinist work (drilling nipple holes, making dovetails etc.) and assemby yourself.
His estimate of what it will take to get one built is.... expensive.... likely close to $1100-$1300, or more, for a rifle. He says there is an outfit in Oregon ("Pacific Rifle Company) that builds very, very nice ones (called "Zephyrs" for a base price of $1500+.:eek:

:( :( :(
 
Shawnee,
That's sad about Blue Grouse. From discussions on muzzleloadingforum, I had assumed they were still in production. I was sure wanting one too. I know the maker was Deer Creek. Maybe if enough of us show interest, they'd start production again. They're very highly regarded by those who own them and some of the accuracy figures posted by owners are stunning.

The only tax change is the application of an 11% excise tax to muzzleloaders. That tax has applied to cartridge arms for decades and goes to wildlife management, so it's good tax (if there's such a thing). I don't see why they wouldn't just add the tax to the cost and keep making them. Even with the tax added, they'd still be an incredibly good value.
 
Hi Plink...


Couldn't agree with you more!

Blue Grouse will still sell locks and some parts but he said he doesn't expect to get locks in for another ten days yet. Said if I, or anyone, was interested they should email him through his website in about 2 weeks. He expects to be selling the locks alone for about $150.
I would love to have both a rifle and a boot pistol - even if I had to buy a kit - but there's no way I can do all the machinist work from scratch and I have no sanely-priced way to contract it done here or the knowledge to ride herd on the quality control of it.:banghead:

Here is the link to the place in Oregon. It's worth a visit just to read the interesting text they have on underhammers.

http://www.pacificrifle.com/catalog.htm

:)
 
Shawnee, do you have access to a lathe and milling machine, and know how to use them? I ask because there's just not much to an underhammer gun - which is why so many gunsmiths, and even blacksmiths, made them (at least, that's what Flayderman's Guide seems to indicate)! I've been toying with the idea of making a simple underhammer pistol from scratch myself, but then again I work in a machine shop and have access to use the machinery in the tooling room...
 
Hi Dutchman...

Unfortunately I have neither machinist aptitude nor access to such equipment. I can scratch and gouge wood with some reasonable effect but the closest I ever get to metal is listening to Iron Maiden.:(

Am hoping to bribe, threaten, blackmail, con, or otherwise harrass Jule at BigIron Barrels into deciding he needs to build a few underhammers. Like yourself - he scoffs at the idea that even an excellent underhammer rifle has to cost $1500.

Since they are easy to change barrels for wouldn't it be sweet to have one with a .50 caliber barrel to hunt deer etc. with and a .36 caliber to plink and target-shoot with?:)

If you're thinking of building one you would probably enjoy talking to the fellow at Blue Grouse as he is really a helpful type chap.:)
 
Hopkins & Allen underhammers

New here to the forums and may have missed out on some of the conversation but I've got an original Numrich H & A .36 Cal. Buggy Rifle that I'd consider selling. It's browned with nice original wood and in perfect condition. One of the best shooters I've owned. Also have one I rebarreled with a 42" Green Mountain .50 Cal. 1-60" twist round ball barrel some years back for deer hunting. Cold browned with a plain stock and no forearm wood. Anyone interested let me know and I'll try to get some pictures took. Both are solid excellent shooters and ready to go,.... leroyabney.hotmail.com
 
underhammer for sale

I have a 50mm underhammer that I just decided to sale. I have only shot it about 10 times. Really acurate, a couple inches off, so it would need the fine sited, all cleaning accessories and powder, hmm...I dont think I could mail that though. powder horn for primeing. I found me a new hobby, restoring a 69 firebird and could use the money. $200. I paid double that. Email me for pictures. I live north of Dallas.
 
darn..... .50cal

You know what I mean.... .50 cal. underhammer. I think the guy told me it was a 1769 replica...???
 
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