Nathaniel Firethorn
Member
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/op...6apr19,0,7782955.story?coll=sfla-news-letters
- NF
BTW, I'm not the author of this.
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scooterthegreat
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Dear President Bush:
I'm about to plan a little trip with my family and extended family, and I would like to ask you to assist me. I'm going to walk across the border from the U.S. into Mexico, and I need to make a few arrangements. I know you can help with this.
I plan to skip all the legal stuff like visas, passports, immigration quotas and laws. I'm sure they handle those things the same way you do here. So, would you mind telling your buddy, President Vicente Fox, that I'm on my way over? Please let him know that I will be expecting the following:
1. Free medical care for my entire family.
2. English-speaking government bureaucrats for all services I might need, whether I use them or not.
3. All government forms need to be printed in English.
4. I want my kids to be taught by English-speaking teachers.
5. Schools need to include classes on American culture and history.
6. I want my kids to see the American flag flying on the top of the flag pole at their school with the Mexican flag flying lower down.
7. Please plan to feed my kids at schoo! l for both breakfast and lunch.
8. I will need a local Mexican driver's license so I can get easy access to government services.
9. I do not plan to have any car insurance, and I won't make any effort to learn local traffic laws.
10. In case one of the Mexican police officers does not get the memo from Pres. Fox to leave me alone, please be sure that all police officers speak English.
11. I plan to fly the U.S. flag from my house top, put flag decals on my car, and have a gigantic celebration on July 4th. I do not want any complaints or negative comments from the locals.
12. I would also like to have a nice job without paying any taxes, and don't enforce any labor laws or tax laws.
13. Please tell all the people in the country to be extremely nice and never say a critical word about me, or about the strain I might place on the economy.
I know this is an easy request because you already do all these things for all the people who come to the U.S. from Mexico. I am sure that Pres. Fox won't mind returning the favor if you ask him nicely.
However, if he gives you any trouble, just invite him to go quail hunting with your V.P.
Thank you so much for your kind help.
I'm about to plan a little trip with my family and extended family, and I would like to ask you to assist me. I'm going to walk across the border from the U.S. into Mexico, and I need to make a few arrangements. I know you can help with this.
I plan to skip all the legal stuff like visas, passports, immigration quotas and laws. I'm sure they handle those things the same way you do here. So, would you mind telling your buddy, President Vicente Fox, that I'm on my way over? Please let him know that I will be expecting the following:
1. Free medical care for my entire family.
2. English-speaking government bureaucrats for all services I might need, whether I use them or not.
3. All government forms need to be printed in English.
4. I want my kids to be taught by English-speaking teachers.
5. Schools need to include classes on American culture and history.
6. I want my kids to see the American flag flying on the top of the flag pole at their school with the Mexican flag flying lower down.
7. Please plan to feed my kids at schoo! l for both breakfast and lunch.
8. I will need a local Mexican driver's license so I can get easy access to government services.
9. I do not plan to have any car insurance, and I won't make any effort to learn local traffic laws.
10. In case one of the Mexican police officers does not get the memo from Pres. Fox to leave me alone, please be sure that all police officers speak English.
11. I plan to fly the U.S. flag from my house top, put flag decals on my car, and have a gigantic celebration on July 4th. I do not want any complaints or negative comments from the locals.
12. I would also like to have a nice job without paying any taxes, and don't enforce any labor laws or tax laws.
13. Please tell all the people in the country to be extremely nice and never say a critical word about me, or about the strain I might place on the economy.
I know this is an easy request because you already do all these things for all the people who come to the U.S. from Mexico. I am sure that Pres. Fox won't mind returning the favor if you ask him nicely.
However, if he gives you any trouble, just invite him to go quail hunting with your V.P.
Thank you so much for your kind help.
Lambo
Member
http://www.illegalimmigrantprotest.c...ordinators.htm
Check out the Bumper Stickers & Tees. I got to start selling these at the Gun Shows,
http://www.illegalimmigrationbumperstickers.com/home
Check out the Bumper Stickers & Tees. I got to start selling these at the Gun Shows,
http://www.illegalimmigrationbumperstickers.com/home
shootinstudent
Member
- Joined
- Oct 7, 2005
- Messages
- 786
You don't need anything more than a driver's license to walk right into mexico. Why go through the desert when you don't need anything more than that to just cross at the official locations?
Sorry, there's no "free medical care" plan for illegal immigrants. If you get some fake mexican documents, this will not be a problem...you'll have an easier time getting treatment there than in the USA.
They've got them. Lots of folks, especially educated ones, learn english in Mexico.
Anything you'd need travelling there is printed in english.
They want their kids to be taught by english speaking teachers too. You'll have an easy time arranging this in a country where english lessons are standard fare for all school children, like in Mexico.
They do.
Is this common in America? Or are you referring to one incident where it happened and protest followed? You'll get the same in Mexico.
Not a problem. Already done.
You don't need one. You can drive with your American license.
Then they will force you to pay if you get in a wreck. Not too different from here. The nice part is that you won't be sued for hundreds of thousands, like you may be here.
You'll have no trouble finding an officer who speaks english.
No one will stop you. You might get some complaints, just like you do here.
Go to work for one of the numerous multinationals that operate in Mexico. No problem.
Just like here, you'll find some people who really like you and want to ask you all about America, and others who don't.
I don't get the point of this list. If you somehow are implying that Mexico treats Americans worse than Americans treat mexicans, there's simply no leg to stand on. The only thing you can't get there is 1st world infrastructure and 1st world pay.
Sheldon J
Member
I like the "Illegal Aliens don't Vote or Pay Taxes, I do"
thumbody
Member
Try sneaking across the border and see if you are given these courtesies.Go in with no ID then break one of thier laws and see if the Mexican govt turns you loose on the streets without any consequences.
Yes if you go across into Mexico LEGALLY chances are you will be treated nice but don't get caught breaking any if their laws or you will be held accountable.
I have heard of American citizens who were locked in Mexican jails for the crime of having empty shotgun hulls in the bed of their pick-ups.
Citizens of Mexico can come over legally and do so everyday these are not the problem.
Most illegals don't get first world pay they get paid under the table so their is no track of what they get paid.This drives down wages for people who are here legally. Check the wages of entry level jobs in states with low immagrant populations and compare that with border states with large populations of illegals.They get taken advantage of because they wont complain because they are afraid of gettting sent back.
RealGun
Member
Please enforce your laws, except for me.
I just want to feel better-than.
I just want to feel better-than.shootinstudent
Member
- Joined
- Oct 7, 2005
- Messages
- 786
Alright, first things first: Yes, immigration is a problem and we have a right to control it. That does not mean, however, that our justification for this position should be "Mexico does x y and z too!". If we did copy mexico, however, we'd have a pretty wide open border.
Why would you need to sneak in? There's no real screening. They wouldn't be able to tell if you'd come in legally or not if all you said was "I lost the little slip they gave me on the plane." Even then, not a serious problem. If we treated all Mexicans with mexican driver's licenses the same way that Mexico treats Americans, there'd be no desert-crossing...they'd all just come in through the checkpoints.
If you say so, but what does this have to do with how Mexico treats American visitors?
Mexico treats us Americans pretty well if we want to go visit. It's easy, simple, and cheap. I don't see what case you can be making by implying that Mexicans in the US somehow get an easier shake than Americans in Mexico.
Why would you need to sneak in? There's no real screening. They wouldn't be able to tell if you'd come in legally or not if all you said was "I lost the little slip they gave me on the plane." Even then, not a serious problem. If we treated all Mexicans with mexican driver's licenses the same way that Mexico treats Americans, there'd be no desert-crossing...they'd all just come in through the checkpoints.
If you say so, but what does this have to do with how Mexico treats American visitors?
Mexico treats us Americans pretty well if we want to go visit. It's easy, simple, and cheap. I don't see what case you can be making by implying that Mexicans in the US somehow get an easier shake than Americans in Mexico.
thumbody
Member
If you want to compare apples to apples then to see if treatment is equal then you must enter their country the same way the ILLEGALS are getting in here.I don't hear anyone complaining about the people who come in legally.
I don't recall any bad talk of legal immigrants,most are treated fairly probably as good as American visitors to Mexico. But our Gov't seems to turn a blind eye to illegal activity by illegal immigrants.Do you think if you were arrested for criminal activity after illegally sneaking in to Mexico that you would be treated as nice as many illegals are here?
Once again these are not just visitors.
Dravur
Member
You are so wrong, Shootin.
Currently, in Mexico is a severely injured Canadian man, being held hostage by the Mexican government and the hospital who will not treat him until his parents come up with $40,000. Bet that doesnt happen here, where a person is treated, mandated by the government, then released to skip out on the check.
Hundreds of people a yeare are tossed into corrupt mexican jails while the corrupt sherrif extorts money out of the victim and his family. Doesn't happen? yep. happened to a friend of mine who was supposedly speeding... a ticket which cost his family $3000 to get him out of jail.
Also, there is a really cute practice on the border states. You can buy prescription drugs over the counter, but some places have a nice little scam going, they sell you the drugs, get you arrested by the "police" outside, the police get to fine you, and the druggist gets to resell the drugs.
And no, an american cannot get a mexican license to access their crappy social systems. You seemed to miss the point about the point of the license. It was not to drive, but to access social services like the illegals want to do in this country.
Just remember this. When the 11 million illegals, unskilled etc, start demanding more wages because they just got amnesty.... what are the businesses going to do? hmmmm, fire them and hire more cheap illegals. Let's see, what does that do, but drop 11 million, newly minted citizens on the welfare roles.
Send them back to mexico and let them remake their c**p infested country into some place they want to live.
Boycott all mexican products. Do not deal with anyone who does not speak english.
Currently, in Mexico is a severely injured Canadian man, being held hostage by the Mexican government and the hospital who will not treat him until his parents come up with $40,000. Bet that doesnt happen here, where a person is treated, mandated by the government, then released to skip out on the check.
Hundreds of people a yeare are tossed into corrupt mexican jails while the corrupt sherrif extorts money out of the victim and his family. Doesn't happen? yep. happened to a friend of mine who was supposedly speeding... a ticket which cost his family $3000 to get him out of jail.
Also, there is a really cute practice on the border states. You can buy prescription drugs over the counter, but some places have a nice little scam going, they sell you the drugs, get you arrested by the "police" outside, the police get to fine you, and the druggist gets to resell the drugs.
And no, an american cannot get a mexican license to access their crappy social systems. You seemed to miss the point about the point of the license. It was not to drive, but to access social services like the illegals want to do in this country.
Just remember this. When the 11 million illegals, unskilled etc, start demanding more wages because they just got amnesty.... what are the businesses going to do? hmmmm, fire them and hire more cheap illegals. Let's see, what does that do, but drop 11 million, newly minted citizens on the welfare roles.
Send them back to mexico and let them remake their c**p infested country into some place they want to live.
Boycott all mexican products. Do not deal with anyone who does not speak english.
RealGun
Member
Show me where anyone has proposed granting citizenship to illegal aliens and succeeded with a vote on it. Referring to easy citizenship re illegal immigrants is a strawman. Now, anchor babies is a different story.
RealGun
Member
Show me what provision makes it easy to gain citizenship.
Actually, my letter to my Senator asks that, regardless of citizenship, illegal aliens who participated in a guest worker program would never be eligible to vote, EVER. That is in the same spirit as the House wanting to make them felons but less nasty about it and with a motive that is entirely above board.
Dravur
Member
straw man
I dont care if they are calling the new path to citizenship for the illegals a guest program, or an amnesty or if they call it Susan. It all ends up the same.
I dont care if illegals have to pay $2000, renounce satan and kiss a puppy to gain citizenship, its still the same.. This is an amnesty program to pander for votes. Buzzards from both parties are lining up to kiss some A**. They are bringing the mouthwash and kneepads. Few understand the long term damage this will have on our country. The few polis who do, like Tom Tancredo are, unfortunatly, in the minority.
It doesnt matter how the citizenship is granted, the point is, our polis are trying to give citizenship to a bunch of low skilled, illiterates from a third world pesthole.
Now, how many jobs will be available for these "Citizens" after they are granted amnesty? How many of them will be dropped on the welfare roles when the lettuce picking company hires a new crop of illegals to replace them after they start demanding more cash because they are now legal.
Nothing personal, but as a new business owner, I will never hire an illegal for any purpose. The only way to get the illegals out of this country is to take away the bennies, the jobs, the social programs, etc. I will do my part.
Also, I do agree with you about the anchor babies. the law should be, if your parents were here illegaly, then you are illegal as well.
I dont care if they are calling the new path to citizenship for the illegals a guest program, or an amnesty or if they call it Susan. It all ends up the same.
I dont care if illegals have to pay $2000, renounce satan and kiss a puppy to gain citizenship, its still the same.. This is an amnesty program to pander for votes. Buzzards from both parties are lining up to kiss some A**. They are bringing the mouthwash and kneepads. Few understand the long term damage this will have on our country. The few polis who do, like Tom Tancredo are, unfortunatly, in the minority.
It doesnt matter how the citizenship is granted, the point is, our polis are trying to give citizenship to a bunch of low skilled, illiterates from a third world pesthole.
Now, how many jobs will be available for these "Citizens" after they are granted amnesty? How many of them will be dropped on the welfare roles when the lettuce picking company hires a new crop of illegals to replace them after they start demanding more cash because they are now legal.
Nothing personal, but as a new business owner, I will never hire an illegal for any purpose. The only way to get the illegals out of this country is to take away the bennies, the jobs, the social programs, etc. I will do my part.
Also, I do agree with you about the anchor babies. the law should be, if your parents were here illegaly, then you are illegal as well.
/*You'll have no trouble finding an officer who speaks english.*/
Correct.
In fact, the Nebraska family that was accosted by Mexican police last year, the wife detained and sexually assaulted, whilethe father who was forced to withdraw all the money he could from the ATM, the kids taking it all in, said that all the officers spoke English...
Correct.
In fact, the Nebraska family that was accosted by Mexican police last year, the wife detained and sexually assaulted, whilethe father who was forced to withdraw all the money he could from the ATM, the kids taking it all in, said that all the officers spoke English...
shootinstudent
Member
- Joined
- Oct 7, 2005
- Messages
- 786
Dravur,
You have clearly never been saddled with medical bills. I used to work in a related field...the benefit you get in the US is that they will not let you die on the front steps of the hospital (which they will happily do in Southeast Asia), but the aftermath is a lifetime of crushing debt if you don't have money to pay.
That's not an apples to apples comparison. The point of the post above was to somehow use Mexico's treatment of Americans going to Mexico as a comparison for treatment of Mexicans here. If America really treated all Mexicans the way Mexico treats Americans, then:
1. Mexicans would not need anything more than a mexican driver's license to cross the border. No paperwork, no applications, nothing. If an American snuck across to mexico illegaly today, all he would have to say when stopped by the police is "I lost the paper stub they gave me", and he'd have no trouble...they wouldn't even be able to tell if he were illegal or not.
2. If the US were to offer Mexicans the same healthcare possibilities, we'd have to let them buy guaranteed government healthcare for about 200 dollars a year. After that, all costs would be borne by the government.
3. We'd also have to have a policy of having virtually zero internal immigration policing (it's all at the borders in Mexico.) But that's irrelevant anyway, since if we're really following the Mexican model by letting any mexican who wants to enter without any pre-clearance, we won't even be able to tell who is illegal and who isn't.
bowfin,
Yep, those things happen in corrupt third world countries. That has just about zero to do with Mexico's immigration policy.
You have clearly never been saddled with medical bills. I used to work in a related field...the benefit you get in the US is that they will not let you die on the front steps of the hospital (which they will happily do in Southeast Asia), but the aftermath is a lifetime of crushing debt if you don't have money to pay.
That's not an apples to apples comparison. The point of the post above was to somehow use Mexico's treatment of Americans going to Mexico as a comparison for treatment of Mexicans here. If America really treated all Mexicans the way Mexico treats Americans, then:
1. Mexicans would not need anything more than a mexican driver's license to cross the border. No paperwork, no applications, nothing. If an American snuck across to mexico illegaly today, all he would have to say when stopped by the police is "I lost the paper stub they gave me", and he'd have no trouble...they wouldn't even be able to tell if he were illegal or not.
2. If the US were to offer Mexicans the same healthcare possibilities, we'd have to let them buy guaranteed government healthcare for about 200 dollars a year. After that, all costs would be borne by the government.
3. We'd also have to have a policy of having virtually zero internal immigration policing (it's all at the borders in Mexico.) But that's irrelevant anyway, since if we're really following the Mexican model by letting any mexican who wants to enter without any pre-clearance, we won't even be able to tell who is illegal and who isn't.
bowfin,
Yep, those things happen in corrupt third world countries. That has just about zero to do with Mexico's immigration policy.
ShootinStudent, you are up in the night. If you really think ANYONE can sneak into Mexico the way Mexicans sneak into this country without any issues, I hope you come down to Texas and try it. You've clearly never been to Mexico, or had to deal with their police. It's laughable that you think you could say "I lost the paper" and the Mexican police would jsut say "oh, ok, you're a nice American, so we'll let you go." What planet do you live on.
Further, while it may be easy to walk over the border as a TOURIST, no one can just walk over into Mexico with the intention of becoming a Mexican resident without the proper legal procedures being complied with. There are very strict regulation in Mexico, stricter than in the US, on who can work there. People who are working illegally in Mexico are FELONS there, and are dealt with very severely. It is definitely not a two way street. My brother worked for a Canadian company in Mexico, and was subject to tremendous red tape to work there. Fees had to be paid, taxes collected, etc. And I don't have a problem with that. If a country wants to enforce its borders like then, they have the right. And so does this country. We currently allow for over a million workers from Mexico a year, LEGALLY. I don't know about you, but if the first thing a person who was trying to be my friend did was break into my house, I'm not sure I'd trust them. If Mexicans want to come here to work, let them come. But let them come LEGALLY! We have laws for a reason, and last time I checked, the criminals are not the ones who get to decide what the laws are.
Further, while it may be easy to walk over the border as a TOURIST, no one can just walk over into Mexico with the intention of becoming a Mexican resident without the proper legal procedures being complied with. There are very strict regulation in Mexico, stricter than in the US, on who can work there. People who are working illegally in Mexico are FELONS there, and are dealt with very severely. It is definitely not a two way street. My brother worked for a Canadian company in Mexico, and was subject to tremendous red tape to work there. Fees had to be paid, taxes collected, etc. And I don't have a problem with that. If a country wants to enforce its borders like then, they have the right. And so does this country. We currently allow for over a million workers from Mexico a year, LEGALLY. I don't know about you, but if the first thing a person who was trying to be my friend did was break into my house, I'm not sure I'd trust them. If Mexicans want to come here to work, let them come. But let them come LEGALLY! We have laws for a reason, and last time I checked, the criminals are not the ones who get to decide what the laws are.
GhostRider66
Member
Shootinstudent,
As they say in Mexico, 'puras mentiras'. Sorry but there is little in your statements that hold a lot of water. Aside from tourist crossing into the 16km international zone, there is paperwork (visas) that is required for entry into the rest of Mexico. It can be cumbersome and often at the discretion of the official helping you as to the amount of 'mordida' required to actually obtain the document. This can be especially complicated if you decide to drive into the interior as the documentation for your vehicle is a whole different matter. Now as for working in Mexico, this can be easy or it can be difficult depending on exactly who you are working for and what you will be doing. I worked for a Ford Motor Company maquila and it was rather easy as their legal dept. handled most of the paperwork but working in computer sales for a company on this side of the border was the most complicated stuff ever and took nearly six months (and a lot of money) to get my work permit.
The educational system in Mexico is wonderful thing if you have money and are an 'influyente' otherwise, you are pretty much stuck with the education up to the eight grade and there is no free lunch or breakfast short of some of the maquiladora sponsored schools. Education in English is not at all common although it is taught as a second language to a very basic level.
Good luck finding a cop who is not on the take and actually speaks English outside of a tourist zone. Not gonna happen. And the principal with accidents down there is "el que pega paga" (he who hits, pays). You cause an accident and you better have the money up front (and plenty of it to go around). If someone is hurt, especially seriously, you are going to jail until the whole thing is sorted out or you can arrange for an influential attorney to petition the local officials to allow bail (unlikely if you are a foreigner) after greasing the right palms of course.
Medical treatment is horrendous if you can actually qualify for whatever treatment you need (the formula seems to be based on where you worked and for how long, what is available, how much extra you are willing to pay and sometimes even social status). Bottom line is there are no guarantees. There are numerous cases (one very recently) of tourists with health insurance having treatment withheld short of the absolute basics until the come up with the cash up front. My grandfather died from the poor treatment in a government hospital from lack of basic sanitation. They wouldn't even feed him in there. The family had to bring in all of the meals. He was a retired gardener (the head one for the state of Chihuahua) but didn't rate any better.
Bottom line here is there are some beautiful things written into the system in Mexico but you needn't look further that the millions of people clamoring to come here to understand how bad things are down there. Mexico had damned well better clean their own house before thinking about dicating anything to America!
As they say in Mexico, 'puras mentiras'. Sorry but there is little in your statements that hold a lot of water. Aside from tourist crossing into the 16km international zone, there is paperwork (visas) that is required for entry into the rest of Mexico. It can be cumbersome and often at the discretion of the official helping you as to the amount of 'mordida' required to actually obtain the document. This can be especially complicated if you decide to drive into the interior as the documentation for your vehicle is a whole different matter. Now as for working in Mexico, this can be easy or it can be difficult depending on exactly who you are working for and what you will be doing. I worked for a Ford Motor Company maquila and it was rather easy as their legal dept. handled most of the paperwork but working in computer sales for a company on this side of the border was the most complicated stuff ever and took nearly six months (and a lot of money) to get my work permit.
The educational system in Mexico is wonderful thing if you have money and are an 'influyente' otherwise, you are pretty much stuck with the education up to the eight grade and there is no free lunch or breakfast short of some of the maquiladora sponsored schools. Education in English is not at all common although it is taught as a second language to a very basic level.
Good luck finding a cop who is not on the take and actually speaks English outside of a tourist zone. Not gonna happen. And the principal with accidents down there is "el que pega paga" (he who hits, pays). You cause an accident and you better have the money up front (and plenty of it to go around). If someone is hurt, especially seriously, you are going to jail until the whole thing is sorted out or you can arrange for an influential attorney to petition the local officials to allow bail (unlikely if you are a foreigner) after greasing the right palms of course.
Medical treatment is horrendous if you can actually qualify for whatever treatment you need (the formula seems to be based on where you worked and for how long, what is available, how much extra you are willing to pay and sometimes even social status). Bottom line is there are no guarantees. There are numerous cases (one very recently) of tourists with health insurance having treatment withheld short of the absolute basics until the come up with the cash up front. My grandfather died from the poor treatment in a government hospital from lack of basic sanitation. They wouldn't even feed him in there. The family had to bring in all of the meals. He was a retired gardener (the head one for the state of Chihuahua) but didn't rate any better.
Bottom line here is there are some beautiful things written into the system in Mexico but you needn't look further that the millions of people clamoring to come here to understand how bad things are down there. Mexico had damned well better clean their own house before thinking about dicating anything to America!
shootinstudent
Member
- Joined
- Oct 7, 2005
- Messages
- 786
Ghostrider66,
Well, I guess they forgot to let Mexicana Airlines and Mexican Customs in Guadalajara Airport know these "facts" when I went there most recently in August. I got onto a plane, flew right into the heart of Mexico, and entered without ever showing a passport. All I needed for that was to fill out a little form on the plane and have the Aduana take a five second look at my driver's license.
I live in Texas, have lived in California, and make a trip to Mexico every couple of years. I have distant relatives who work for La Aduana, and have had the occasion to talk with policemen from various different agencies in Mexico. I think perhaps a trip is in order for you, if this is your picture of the situation there.
Again, enforcing the border is one thing...sure, we have a right and we should be able to decide how we want to deal with immigrants. But this comparison to "Look at what Mexico does!" is just silly, in the first place because strict reciprocity in treatment is a terrible idea, and in the second, because if you actually look at how Mexico treats Americans...well, there's no contest. All I need to go to mexico is a DL and the cash to get me there; a Mexican needs to navigate a slough of State Department forms just to go on a couple of weeks' tour or visit some relatives anywhere other than a border zone.
Well, I guess they forgot to let Mexicana Airlines and Mexican Customs in Guadalajara Airport know these "facts" when I went there most recently in August. I got onto a plane, flew right into the heart of Mexico, and entered without ever showing a passport. All I needed for that was to fill out a little form on the plane and have the Aduana take a five second look at my driver's license.
I live in Texas, have lived in California, and make a trip to Mexico every couple of years. I have distant relatives who work for La Aduana, and have had the occasion to talk with policemen from various different agencies in Mexico. I think perhaps a trip is in order for you, if this is your picture of the situation there.
Again, enforcing the border is one thing...sure, we have a right and we should be able to decide how we want to deal with immigrants. But this comparison to "Look at what Mexico does!" is just silly, in the first place because strict reciprocity in treatment is a terrible idea, and in the second, because if you actually look at how Mexico treats Americans...well, there's no contest. All I need to go to mexico is a DL and the cash to get me there; a Mexican needs to navigate a slough of State Department forms just to go on a couple of weeks' tour or visit some relatives anywhere other than a border zone.
Thats a pretty sloppy analogy. For one thing it assumes that "someone" actually *owns* America, which is not the case. It also assumes that everyone in America (even if they did own it) agree on the uninvited nature of these guests. The whole thing doesnt stand up to the laugh test for more than 30 seconds. There are ample illustrations of immigration issues, this is a poor effort at best, and it is almost insulting that the author expects people to accept it.
Shootin, I only need a DL to get into Canada too, WHEN I GO THERE AS A TOURIST. That doesn't mean that I can work there without complying with their labor laws. If I want to work in Canada, and I am not a Canadian citizen, I have to obtain the proper visas, etc. Should I just say "Well heck, they let me in, so I guess I can do what I want now!" I don't think so, and I don't think the Canadian government would be too happy if we all decided that Canada was a nice place to go and work without telling them, given that if we are there illegally we won't have to pay all their silly income and other taxes. They have a "free" government health care system up there. It sure would be nice to go up there and enjoy it without having to pay taxes to help support it, wouldn't it?
Why do you think it is that Americans can get into Mexico and Canada with just a DL? Maybe because we come for the scenery and beaches, or the historical sites, AND THEN LEAVE! Maybe because we don't SNEAK in to work ILLEGALLY and then never leave! Do you think that might be part of it? Why is it that Canadians can enter the US with nothing more than a DL? Because they come for a while AND THEN LEAVE! And if they want to live and work here, they follow the LEGAL process and obtain the proper documents.
The analogy is valid, I believe, because Vicente Fox and the Mexican government are currently trying to put pressure on the US to relax its immigration laws. Yet, they have not relaxed their own immigration laws, so it is entirely hypocritical.
And, by the way, WE THE PEOPLE own the United States, and WE THE PEOPLE, through our elected representatives, decide who should be here and who should not.
Why do you think it is that Americans can get into Mexico and Canada with just a DL? Maybe because we come for the scenery and beaches, or the historical sites, AND THEN LEAVE! Maybe because we don't SNEAK in to work ILLEGALLY and then never leave! Do you think that might be part of it? Why is it that Canadians can enter the US with nothing more than a DL? Because they come for a while AND THEN LEAVE! And if they want to live and work here, they follow the LEGAL process and obtain the proper documents.
The analogy is valid, I believe, because Vicente Fox and the Mexican government are currently trying to put pressure on the US to relax its immigration laws. Yet, they have not relaxed their own immigration laws, so it is entirely hypocritical.
And, by the way, WE THE PEOPLE own the United States, and WE THE PEOPLE, through our elected representatives, decide who should be here and who should not.
shootinstudent
Member
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- Messages
- 786
What you are highlighting here is that the US and Mexico have different needs. Hence, we have different border/immigration policies. The fact that theirs is less harsh is what you seem to be admitting here...why they have a less complicated system is a different matter, but certainly, there's no question that it's easier for an American to go to Mexico than a Mexican to come and stay in America. It's even easier to be illegal there, since enforcement beyond the border zones is nil, and because it's so easy to go legally that there are numerous ways to avoid being caught.
Okay, so would it be less hypocritical if Mexico said simply: "The US should require of Mexicans who wish to enter the US only the same things that Mexico requires of US citizens"???
Do you get the problem with this thinking? If the US treated Mexicans like Mexico treats folks from our side, there'd be no possible way to even slow the numbers of illegals, because entry would be easy, and then they could just stay illegaly wherever with little risk of being caught (which is what Americans can currently do if they wish to stay in Mexico.)
Controlling the borders and making points about good US policy is fine, but this "They do it worse!" comparison to Mexico makes no sense. Mexico's immigration policy towards Americans is so much easier than America's towards Mexicans that it's simply absurd to call them "hypocrites" for saying anything about immigration.
shootinstudent-
Ever try to go to Mexico and get a JOB without a visa? Ever go to Mexico and commit a crime, or be suspected of committing a crime? Been shaken down by the cops? Hell, have you ever BEEN to Mexico?
Here's a quiz for you: how far can you legally travel into Mexico without checking in with authorities and getting a tourist permit?
Ever try to go to Mexico and get a JOB without a visa? Ever go to Mexico and commit a crime, or be suspected of committing a crime? Been shaken down by the cops? Hell, have you ever BEEN to Mexico?
Here's a quiz for you: how far can you legally travel into Mexico without checking in with authorities and getting a tourist permit?
RealGun
Member
Sounds good, but legislators may not follow popular sentiment. They are dealing with more than petty resentments and simplistic solutions. At least they are likely to do SOMETHING constructive soon. Bush asked them 5 years ago to address the problem. If they back off because of approaching elections, there will be hell to pay I expect.
The greatest bone of contention in my opinion is whether people who decide to officially stay here as "guest workers" will ever have the right to vote. The GOP is not going to go along with instantly creating 11 million Democrats and ceding the southwest to Mexican workers and other Democrat interests. "Going to the back of the line" to apply for citizenship is definitely a way of managing the flow of new voters without being too obvious about what the concerns really are.
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