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Univ of VA Student Files Lawsuit Challenging Handgun Purchase Law

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by RETG, Oct 28, 2018.

  1. RETG

    RETG Member

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  2. Hokie_PhD

    Hokie_PhD Member

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    I wish them luck.
    I’ve said for a long time that if the voting age is 18 then that’s when someone is legaly an adult. When the drinking age was raised to 21 I felt it was wrong as IMHO one of our most important rights is the right to vote.

    So I’m very interested in this even though I don’t have a dog in the fight.

    I know some will argue that different things require different maturity levels. I’ll accept that but I’m not so sure that hold water from a legal perspective. So it’ll be interesting to see how this goes as tobacco and alcohol will probably affected by this too in addition to the 2nd Amendment issues.
     
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  3. Fine Figure of a Man

    Fine Figure of a Man Member

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    You're right of course, I'm sure some will and do.
    Using that argument, there are and always will be many people that never reach the level of maturity needed to vote, drive, or own firearms.
    I hope this case goes to SCOTUS
     
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  4. Texas10mm

    Texas10mm Member

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    There are some who want to lower the voting age to 16, most of those very same people don't want ANYONE to own firearms.

    Personally if one can enlist in the military at 18 then you should be able to purchase a handgun at 18.
     
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  5. cheygriz

    cheygriz Member

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    Old enough to die for your country, old enough to buy a handgun, a bottle of whiskey, to vote, or any other right of an adult.

    Here's a thought. Raise the age for military service to 21.
     
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  6. Jim Watson

    Jim Watson Member

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    Under 18? I'm against it.
    Oh, wait, I looked at the article and it is between 18 and 21.

    The Army has tight gun control, all weapons in the military come equipped with a noncom and an arms room. POWs are very limited.
    I have seen junior high students manage firearms well under comparable conditions with no worries, but they don't get to buy their own or carry them to town.
    As Mr Mason said to Mr Dixon, we've got to draw the line somewhere.

    I would not mind selling a pistol to a young serving troop home on leave, but would gladly discriminate against his classmate whose ideas were formed on a playstation. Oops, I said a bad word there, didn't I? But that's my stand, can enlist, no, did enlist, yes.

    I was already 21 by the time the voting age was reduced to 18 and frankly I did not feel like I had missed out on anything.
     
  7. Fine Figure of a Man

    Fine Figure of a Man Member

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    The legal age to buy handguns, long guns, booze, cigarettes and serve in the military should all be the legal age of adulthood. The right to vote in federal, state, and local elections should be based on whether or not an individual has paid federal, state or local tax. I could go on but probably better not.
     
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  8. mio

    mio Member

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    At least in Mi you can legally bypass the law. We have handgun registration and have to get a purchase permit. I got the purchase permit at 18 and bought a super Redhawk for deer hunting. No problems at the sheriff department getting the permit or registering the gun.
     
  9. mio

    mio Member

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    I did buy from a private party not an ffl.
     
  10. Hokie_PhD

    Hokie_PhD Member

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    In Maryland they’ve done this for local elections in a few localities.
    I’m sure this will cause more problems for national elections where the age is 18. But then again this is a state that claims to be the “Free State” yet has some of the strictest and most repressive gun laws.

    I’m with you in that I think it’s one age, why should an 18 year old be old enough to serve but not drink a beer or own a gun off base/post. Ever make them full adults or make the age 21. As for 16 year olds voting, I only see that as a way to get more liberal voters as people (in general) tend to be more liberal when young then get more conservative as they age.
     
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  11. ontarget

    ontarget Member

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    Also in MI you can own a handgun at 18 through a gift.
     
  12. CapnMac

    CapnMac Member

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    There is a huge issue (if under-germane for THR) in having multiple, split, majorities. One of the more serious issues is that no one person can ever be certain if they themselves or another have legally achieved majority without extensive research in every possible jurisdiction. Is it legal to give your nephew a beer with their parent's permission? Dunno, you have to check jurisdictions. They are 40? Are they on probation or other required monitoring? How do you know. A person can enlist at 17 with parental permission. Which parent? All of them? You cannot get a minor (under 18) a passport without both biological parents' permission (typically in person). Rent your nephew a car? Are they 25? Are you in Texarkana, where three separate States share borders along streets. Legal in this block but not that one.

    And, of course, there is huge political power in being able to enfranchise or disenfranchise various groups by changing their majority, so there are ramifications in just abiding the status quo.

    So, the politics are not in THR purview; however, political clarity, in the why of this age is ok for long arms and that age is ok for handguns, is well within our realm.
     
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  13. CapnMac

    CapnMac Member

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    This has been advanced before. The problem is that there is incredible stamina and energy and adaptability in the 18-21 age cohort which gives them extreme advantages in military service. And not merely in being able to hump 50kg and a bangstick right to the edge of the MSR. It also applies in the rear with the gear. The very adaptabily, plasticity of young people's brains is actually an asset, particularly in specialized job skills.
     
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  14. RedlegRick

    RedlegRick Member

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    I'm of the mind that if you're old enough to serve and vote, you should be able to buy a beer and a handgun (preferably not at the same time).

    Even better, give kids who took the 30 seconds to fill out a selective service card a special perk over and above those snowflakes who don't feel our nation is good enough for their time and energy.
     
  15. cheygriz

    cheygriz Member

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    You're absolutely correct, Capt. I enlisted at 17.

    I've always advocated for allowing anyone in service, regardless of ase, to be treated the same as a 21 year old. Since no one in office will listen, I came up with the idea of raising the enlistment age to 21.

    I know darn well it won;t work, but maybe it would get their attention.
     
  16. RETG

    RETG Member

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    I believe 30 states allow 18 year old persons to legally own a handgun either via a FTF purchase of a gift from a relative. There are also some states that allow 19-20 year old persons to become LE officers; thus, they are issued a handgun for work. In Idaho, an 18 year old can carry a concealed handgun outside of a city limits without a permit and can obtain a permit to carry inside the city limits. So my thoughts (which are ONLY mine) is if a 18-20 year old can legally purchase a rifle from a FFL (except for some states), they should be allowed to purchase a handgun also.

    I do not do this for the cause many here state, old enough to fight for the country, old enough to obtain a weapon, I only state it since I see no difference between a rifle and a handgun, other than ease of concealment. As for those saying old enough to serve old enough to purchase....I cannot agree with. I would say serving in the military you should be able to get purchase a handgun (active or NG); however, when people note you can be drafted so you should be able to purchase a handgun, how to you handle the females? Females are not required to register for the draft. So using that reasoning, only males at 18 should be able to purchase; whereas, females should not.

    IDAHO law on 18 year old handgun ownership:
    AN IDAHO RESIDENT AGE 18-20: You must obtain a concealed weapon permit to carry a concealed handgun inside city limits, and you must meet the stricter enhanced-carry permit standards to do so, which include live-rounds training. However, a sheriff has no discretion, as they did under previous law, over whether to issue you a permit; if you meet the standards, including passing a background check, they must issue you a permit. Outside city limits, you may carry a concealed weapon without a permit, as long as you aren’t disqualified because of a criminal record, protection order or other rules.
     
  17. Telekinesis

    Telekinesis Member

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    I think it's funny how a lot of times when this type of topic comes up, people focus on whether or not a person between 18 and 20 should be allowed to have a pistol. But that's not what this is about - federal law already allows anyone over 18 years old to own a pistol (and like other gun laws, states can impose stricter laws).

    So the issue is more accurately described as "why are only federally licensed businesses legally prohibited from selling to a class of people an item that they can already legally possess and purchase from other sources".

    Of course we know that it's not quite as simple as that. Because of the way federal law is structured, 18-20 year olds are bared from purchasing anything online and receiving a transfer, or by engaging in any other sort of interstate commerce regarding the purchase and transfer of pistols, or even receiving a pistol as a gift from someone who resides in a different state. I have a bit of a bone to pick with this - I missed out on those P7 trade ins because I was in that age range where I could own the gun but I couldn't order it and have it transferred.

    This will be interesting to watch. Hopefully they are able to gain traction and work their way up the courts.
     
  18. BSA1

    BSA1 Member

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    Not owning property and being unable to pay poll tax has been used in the past to discriminate against the poor, minorities and other groups.

    What you are proposing is you don't want anyone that does not pay what you consider to be a fair share to the Government to have a say in how the country is governed. Or in plain terms being able to vote is based on how much they can pay the man.
     
  19. BSA1

    BSA1 Member

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    So someone that is 4F or is choosing to pursue a higher education by going to college or learning a trade should not be allowed to buy a gun. Or a young adult that is showing the maturity and responsibility to work a full time job to support his family should be denied the same right.

    Of course making it illegal for someone under 21 to buy a handgun works well for keeping them out of the hands of gang bangers and criminals hasn't it?

    As for your desire to prevent any young adult that plays video games for owning a handgun I can only shake my head at your attitude. Obviously my son who was a video junkie when he was a teenager and young adult that has now served over 12 years in the Army, is going to college full-time (and graduating soon with a four year degree in computer field (GASP!)), is married with a son and working a full-time job doesn't measure up to your standards does he?

    What does your lack of interest in politics have to do with anything?
     
  20. Fine Figure of a Man

    Fine Figure of a Man Member

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    What I said is in written in plain terms in post 7. No translation is needed.
     
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  21. Jim Watson

    Jim Watson Member

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    I am sure we could come up with all sorts of indicators of maturity. Unfortunately the Liberal lawyers would not allow them to be applied. Got to have a number. I think 21 is and was fine, I don't really object to 18, just the argument "old enough to join the army." How about a consistent age of adulthood. How come you have to be 21 to buy a pistol, 18 to vote, 17 to see an R rated movie, 16 to drive? Make it 18 for everything.

    About as well as it does for any other age group.
    I don't recall commenting on video game addiction, although I think it a waste of time better spent on the shooting range. Your son measures up to my standards... now.
     
  22. paulsj

    paulsj Member

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    I will guess creating AAYP and voting I every election consistently would make this problem go away.
     
  23. Jim Watson

    Jim Watson Member

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    Please spell out acronyms on their first appearance. I haven't seen "AAYP" before. And "I".
     
  24. paulsj

    paulsj Member

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    It's a mythical organization representing interests of people <21 years old. You know, young folk AARP.
     
  25. TJ AK-74

    TJ AK-74 Member

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    There is no age requirement listed in the Constitution for any of the Bill of Rights. Only the 26th Amendment states an age. Why should the 2nd Amendment not apply to people under the age of 18? Do we allow the government to search and seize property of a 14 yr old without a warrant? Can an 11 yr old be sentenced with a cruel and unusual punishment? Is a 5 yr old not allowed to practice the religion of his or her choice? Is it ok to enslave people as long as they are under 18? Is an 8 yr old unable to send a petition to the President? If all the other Rights apply to minors, firearms ownership should as well.
     
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