Up till now I have not had to deal with leading---

[Waveski]

Did some shooting today , the revolver was an early Taurus 85 , small scraps of plywood as targets. The plywood printed real nice entry holes. I noticed that I seemed to have a few errant shots , figured it was because of poor concentration and crummy vision. When I picked up the targets I noticed that a round had key holed... Hmm I says to myself , lets have a look at the bore.

Holy Crap - what a mess! Looked like a cooled lava flow. In my 7-8 years of shooting I have not experienced lead fouling before ; the streak is over.

Ammo was Magtech 158 gr lrn ; I've used that product in the past without this problem The Taurus is new to me ; very clean , appears to be lightly used.

Questions:
What caused this to happen?

What do I do about it? The only product I had on hand was Hoppes #9 , vigorous brushing with it removed maybe 60%.

Take a look , tell me what you think.

 

[Slamfire]

What do I do about it? The only product I had on hand was Hoppes #9 , vigorous brushing with it removed maybe 60%.

You are going to have to remove that fouling by mechanical means. The Lewis lead remover is perhaps the safest technique. I have "shot out" such leading with jacketed bullets, but that raises pressures, so it is not to be considered safe with +P rounds, perhaps even standard pressure rounds.

I am of the opinion that leading is primarily caused by lack of lubrication. I tested this with an 1873 Springfield Trapdoor and my "hardcast" lead bullets. Plain lead bullets, with only the lube provided by the caster, leaded something horrible. But dipping the rounds in grease, so they are coated to what would by considered by many, an obscene amount, positively reduce leading to an insignificant level.



Your factory ammunition, I would recommend greasing the heck out of the bullets and then fire them. Be prepared to get greasy messy, and go buy another non-fouling brand. It is too much work to have to remove heavy levels of lead fouling.

 

[MidRoad]

Something has to be tight/undersized? Cylinder throats or bore maybe. Idk all I "know" about lead fouling comes from folks on here. So really I know nothing lol. Haven't had a problem with it yet. I'd see if you can pick up a lead specific removal product like shooters choice.

 

[Toodfb1911]

Bones is headed the right direction. If the rounds shoot well in another gun, it's the "new" gun. There are a few places to look. 1st check the cylinder diameter at the front end (throat), then slug the barrel. The barrel should be smaller...In some guns that I've had this issue with, the cylinder throats were undersized (too small), the bullet is too small entering the barrel and not making a good seal thus the leading. The "fix" was to have the throats opened up (by a gunsmith) a few thousandths.

 

[Waveski]

"Shooting it out" sounds easy and fun. (Too good to be true...?) Worth a try with some 158 gr fmj that cronos at 800 fps?

 

[Eddietruett]

With leading that bad, I would not try to "shoot it out" with jacketed bullets. I witnessed a revolver blowing up about 20 years ago when the owner tried to clean leading that way. I'm guessing it just was so bad it built up too much pressure. Best way I've found is get some Chore Boy Copper pads in the houseware department at Walmart. Take a few strands and wrap around a brass brush and it will clean out the majority in a few passes .I do the initial passes dry, then use the brass brush with bore cleaner to get the last remaining bit out. I have a buddy that will plug one end of the barrel and then fill barrel with Kroil. He swears that in a day or two the Kroil will seep under the lead and it will almost fall out. I plan to try that method next time I have a problem.

 

[9mmepiphany]

I have a buddy that will plug one end of the barrel and then fill barrel with Kroil. He swears that in a day or two the Kroil will seep under the lead and it will almost fall out.

I've seen this done with Hoppe's #9 also...it doesn't fall out, but it does push out fairly easily. When I've seen it done, they plugged both ends of the filled barrel

 

[readyeddy]

Another vote for chore boy, a very cheap, fast, easy and effective solution.

 

[JRadice45]

Brownells sells a bore brush called the double tuff. The bronze wire is stiffer and really seems to do a number on heavy leading like you have without going full on Lewis lead remover. The brushes work quite well.
https://www.brownells.com/gun-clean...-brushes/double-tuff-bore-brush-prod1244.aspx

 

[Waveski]

I witnessed a revolver blowing up about 20 years ago when the owner tried to clean leading that way.

Figured as much. Like I said , too good to be true.

 

[reddog81]

A jacketed bullet will blow out a little leading, but in this scenario it will just iron in the lead and make it harder to remove.

 

[MEHavey]

Chore Boy Copper pads

+1 w/ Kroil (or any lock penetrating oil)
Take a magnet to the store, however, ann make sure you get copper -- not copper-plated steel.


.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

Slug the barrel and cylinder throats -- as others have said, the most likely culprit is a bad throat-to-barrel fit. The throats should be about .001" larger than the groove diameter of the barrel.

 

[FROGO207]

More than likely it is only one throat that bothers. Mark it and shoot the other ones a couple cylinders worth and see if it still leads the barrel. Only once did I have a 357 Ruger that had ALL the throats undersized.

 

[Salmoneye]

Another vote for cylinder throats being too small...

 

[Waveski]

Well , I know little of cylinder throats. Could someone expand, please?

 

[Vern Humphrey]

Well , I know little of cylinder throats. Could someone expand, please?

Imagine you're loading your revolver. The cartridge drops easily into the chamber -- it's a loose fit. The bullet is inside the cartridge case, so it's an even looser fit. If you didn't do anything about that, when you fired, the bullet would go rattling down the chamber, ricocheting off the chamber walls, and accuracy would be nonexistent.

What you do is make the chamber SMALLER in front. When the gun is loaded, the bullet is almost touching a constriction or "throat" (Smith and Wesson calls it a "ball seat.") As the bullet leaves the case, it enters the throat and is swaged down slightly and held tightly controlled until it leaves the chamber and enters the barrel.

If the throat is too SMALL, the bullet is swaged down too much and will be too small for the bore. Gas will squirt past the bullet, causing "gas cutting" and depositing lead in the bore. By slightly reaming the throat out, you can get a much better fit between bullet and bore and cut way down on leading.

Now, some have pointed out that it may be only one chamber that has an undersized throat. But if you take it to a smith, you want him to make sure all chamber have the same size throat -- because variances in throat diameter can affect accuracy. So you may need to have all throats reamed.

 

[Walkalong]

I have never seen leading that bad, including the time I leaded up a .38 S&W with .358 lead bullets.

Check the diameter of the throats and the groove diameter of the bore.

 

[200Apples]

Do not attempt to shoot that out. It's too thick.

As others mentioned, use a piece of 100% copper scrub pad on an old, bronze bristle gun bore brush, a size or two smaller in diameter (for room for the copper mesh, and shoot for a snug fit in the bore) and literally scrape the lead out of your bore, and onto a damp paper towel for disposal.

Then! you should measure via one method or another, your cylinder throats diameters and your bore's lands and grooves.

A lead bullet is best when it measures the same as your cylinder throats, which, as Vern Humphrey noted, should be roughly .001" larger than your bore's groove diameter.

You should also shoot a bullet alloy of an appropriate Brinnell hardness for the speed of the load. There's a bit to know but once you're dialed in, you may never lead again.

See Fixing Sixguns That Lead on singleactions dot com.

 

[Waveski]

I have never seen leading that bad,.....

I thought you folks would find the image interesting. Imagine my reaction when I checked the bore.

I would think that my machinist friend could measure the throat diameters with a proper accurate inside caliper? That might be a good start.

Vern - Thank you for that explanation. I did not realize that the bullet got swaged before entering the bore. Gas cutting caused by detonation gasses blowing past the lead bullet makes sense.

Note: I just paused while typing this post - I went down to the work bench and passed several .38 special wadcutter bullets through the cylinder chambers. The bullets could be pushed through with only very light friction. No one individual chamber , or charge hole , seemed different or tighter than the others. Does this simple exercise yield any meaningful information?

 

[dbmjr1]

That is some pretty severe leading you've got there.
Others have commented as to the cause. On that score I'll add: If enough carbon is allowed to build up in the chambers of a revolver, it will constrict as though the chamber was cut too small.

There are three methods of removing leading:
Mechanical
Chemical
Electrical

Mechanical has already been discussed. Copper, (be sure not to get copper plated), Chore boy pads work well. Lewis lead removers work well too.

Chemical: If you stop up one end of the barrel, and fill the bore with Mercury, the lead will be dissolved into a solution in the Mercury. As a bonus you will now be the proud owner of your own toxic waste site. Disposing of the byproduct is the biggest problem.

Electrical: Brownells sells a kit that will remove the leading using electrolysis. Pricey, but very efficient and relatively safe.

Once you get the bore cleaned, I suggest lapping it with Bore Butter.

Then I suggest that you clean the cylinder chambers very well, along with the forcing cone.

Change ammo to either a powder coat, or a jacketed projectile.

Not that you can't make Pb bullets work.

 

[8ring]

A set of pin gauges will determine the size of your cylinder throats most accurately. However, you can also get a .357" diameter jacketed bullet and a .358" lead bullet. Clean the cylinder throats thoroughly and try to push each size bullet through the throats from the chamber using the eraser end of a pencil. The .357 should slip right through and the .358 should go through with only moderate resistance. If the throats are too small, take it to a gunsmith and have him / her ream them out to .3585" or .359" at the most.

When getting the lead out of the bore, you can use a bore cleaner that has amonia and soak the bore well for 15 minutes before you start Lewis Lead Remover or a Chore Boy to clean it.

 

[Waveski]

I went down to the work bench and passed several .38 special wadcutter bullets through the cylinder chambers. The bullets could be pushed through with only very light friction. No one individual chamber , or charge hole , seemed different or tighter than the others. Does this simple exercise yield any meaningful information?

I am asking this question again... and in addition , perhaps it would be helpful for me to empty one of the rounds remaining in the box which resulted in the leading , and try passing that bullet through the chambers...?

 

[200Apples]

I went down to the work bench and passed several .38 special wadcutter bullets through the cylinder chambers. The bullets could be pushed through with only very light friction. No one individual chamber , or charge hole , seemed different or tighter than the others. Does this simple exercise yield any meaningful information?

I am asking this question again... and in addition , perhaps it would be helpful for me to empty one of the rounds remaining in the box which resulted in the leading , and try passing that bullet through the chambers...?

It can be a good indication if the bullet fits snugly to the chamber throat. Again, you will need to measure the chamber throats. Minus Pin Gauges/gauge pins are best. Then your barrel bore's groove diameter needs to be measured, and most folks do this by using a soft lead slug or a fishing sinker of appropriate size.

Were you able to have a look at the link to singleactions dot com I posted?

And since the leading appears [also?] at the muzzle, your gun may be suffering from barrel thread choke, where the barrel has been screwed into the frame. If the bullet is sized down from passing through that restriction in the bore, it may wobble the rest of the way down the bore and out the muzzle, leaving lead in it's wake, in which case the barrel should be fire-lapped. Aren't you glad you asked?

While chamber throat-to-bullet fit is important, there's more to it. Good luck. It takes time to get it all figgrd out!

 

[Vern Humphrey]

The key is not how easily the bullets slip through the throat, but instead what is the difference between throat diameter and groove diameter? Lead bullets will "slug up" in a slightly oversize throat and work just fine. So you want a throat about .001" larger than the groove diameter.