Update: CCW in National Parks

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I hope we don't have to wait long

I have always wanted to go to Yosemite
Uhhhh....I don't think the proposal includes open carry...
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As I understand it is based on State Law, CA State law is open carry is permitted at your campsite in any National Forest (some campgrounds near Tahoe are posted though)
So open carry in Yosemite would be legal, especially since many people can not get ccw's.
I can forsee the Park Rangers freaking out though and a Court case happening.
(if we win in the first place)
 
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KenW. said:
Uhm... Open carry is indeed lawful in National Forests; but isn't Yosemite a National Park?
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Open carry may or may not be legal in national forests. The NFS rule is to follow the law of the state(s) in which the forest is located. The whole point of this national parks initiative is to try to get the National Park Service to follow the same rule.
 
there is no need for guns in National Parks....

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,402482,00.html

Father, 8-Year-Old Son Survive Tennessee Bear Attack

Tuesday, August 12, 2008

AP

KNOXVILLE, Tennessee — An 8-year-old boy and his father were mauled by a black bear that pounced on the boy in a creek without provocation in Great Smoky Mountains National Park, authorities said Tuesday.

Evan Pala was cut, scratched and bitten. His father, John Pala of Boca Raton, also was cut before driving off the bear with rocks and sticks. They were both treated and released from a nearby hospital a few hours after the attack late Monday.

The boy was playing in a creek near a popular trail "and the bear just came and pounced on him for no apparent reason," park spokeswoman Nancy Gray said.

The boy scared the bear off once, but it returned before the father finally drove it away.

Park rangers tracked down a young male bear weighing about 86 pounds that they suspected of being the attacker. When the bear acted aggressively toward the rangers, they shot it.

The animal was taken to the University of Tennessee Veterinary Medical Center for a necropsy to establish that it was the right bear, based on teeth and claw measurements, among other things. But Gray said rangers are certain they shot the right bear, because of its behavior.

Gray said the animal also would be tested for rabies, which has never been found in a Smokies bear.

Gray said black bears have injured people eight times in the past decade in the Great Smokies, a 520,000-acre preserve straddling the Tennessee-North Carolina border that has about 1,600 bears and draws more than 9 million visitors annually. One attack was fatal.

In most cases, the bears attacked a person while trying to poach their food. But no food was present when the bear attacked the boy around 7:30 p.m. Monday as he was playing in the water about 300 yards up Rainbow Falls Trail, about 2.5 miles south of Gatlinburg, Gray said.

"This is so rare," said Lynn Rogers, director of the North American Bear Center in Ely, Minnesota "I don't know if you would call a bear like that a demented bear, like some people, or a super bear that decides, 'Hey, I can take a person."'

The North American Bear Center lists 61 people killed by black bears in North America since 1900, with 46 of those in Alaska or Canada.

But there have been two fatal attacks in eastern Tennessee: A Tennessee school teacher was killed in 2000 by a female bear and cub during a day hike in the Great Smokies and an Ohio family was attacked in 2006 in bordering Cherokee National Forest, killing a 6-year-old girl and injuring her 2-year-old brother and mother.
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rare they may be, but i still don't want to be statistical anomaly. ounce of prevention and all that.

Bobby
 
In most cases, the bears attacked a person while trying to poach their food. But no food was present when the bear attacked the boy around 7:30 p.m. Monday as he was playing in the water about 300 yards up Rainbow Falls Trail, about 2.5 miles south of Gatlinburg, Gray said.
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I'm thinking the dear figured the boy WAS food.
 
I'd like to carry in Nat Parks more for the human factor than for bears. Granted, there is a tiny chance that I could be attacked by a bear... but I am more likely to be messed with by some crazy rednecks or something. Bears generally don't come unless you leave food out at night. On the trail, they will smell/hear humans from a mile away, and they will generally avoid us. However, other humans concern me more than animals when I am out in the woods.
 
What makes you think they are going to read the comments?
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If you take a look at final rule promulgations in the federal register you'll see that in a lot of cases they will address specific points raised in the public comment period. Failing to do so *could* be grounds to overturn a regulation in court. It's unlikely, and the deck is stacked against that happening, but it's possible. Additionally, this rule generated comments like no other proposed in recent memory.

Here's an update:
http://www.csmonitor.com/2008/0819/p03s07-usgn.html

"..Under the proposed new rule, the ban would be lifted only in national parks and wildlife refuges located in states that permit concealed
weapons in their own state parks.

Although 48 states have enacted concealed gun permit procedures, only
24 of them currently allow concealed guns in state parks.

Those states are: Alaska, Arizona, Arkansas, Colorado, Connecticut,
Florida, Indiana, Kansas, Massachusetts, Michigan, Minnesota,
Missouri, Montana, Nebraska, Nevada, New Hampshire, Ohio, Oregon,
South Carolina, Utah, Vermont, Virginia, Washington, and Wyoming."
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So if you live in any of the states not listed above, DOI considers your life less important. THIS is why the petitioners requested that commenters add specific regulation language to their comments. The VCDL petitioners requested language that would not have disenfranchised these other states.

They're not going to come willingly, so it's important to keep your elected officials aware that this still isn't done. Call them and have them contact DOI on the petitioner's behalf and ask that the petitioner language be substituted for the DOI language.
 
^^^

Just this past spring, the legislature in Nashville put the kibosh on a bill that would have allowed us HCP holders to carry into state parks. Unfortunately, so long as our current House Speaker retains his position, it looks like this kind of legislation will continue to be killed in committee and never make it to the floor. I hope they rewrite the regulation to not adhere to state regs, but I don't have a lot of faith in it.

Also, a note about the states listed in your post: I don't see NC listed in there, but I don't recall there being any statute that made state parks off-limits to carry there when I was a resident.

EDIT: Just checked, and there is indeed no prohibition in the NC statutes that prohibits carry in state parks that I see. This is particularly important to me since I may well be going camping in NC in a few weeks. :)
 
EDIT: Just checked, and there is indeed no prohibition in the NC statutes that prohibits carry in state parks that I see. This is particularly important to me since I may well be going camping in NC in a few weeks.:)
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http://www.ncparks.gov/Visit/rules/docs/rules_subchapter_12b.pdf
http://www.ncparks.gov/Visit/parks/enri/rules.php

SECTION .0900 - FIREARMS: EXPLOSIVES: FIRES: ETC.
15A NCAC 12B .0901 FIREARMS: WEAPONS: EXPLOSIVES
(a) No person except authorized park employees, their agents, or contractors, or officers of the state shall carry or possess
firearms, airguns, bows and arrows, sling shots, or lethal missiles of any kind within any park.
(b) The possession or use of cap pistols is prohibited. The possession or use of dynamite or other powerful explosives as
defined in G.S. 14-284.1 is prohibited.
(c) The possession or use of pyrotechnics is prohibited except for pyrotechnics exhibited, used, or discharged in connection
with an authorized public exhibition and approved by the Director of the Division of Parks and Recreation, or designee.
Persons wishing to possess or use pyrotechnics in connection with a public exhibition, such as a public celebration shall file
an application for a special use permit with the appropriate park superintendent. All applicants shall enter an indemnification
agreement with the Department and obtain general liability and property damage insurance, with limits as determined by the
Secretary or designee, which are reasonably necessary to cover possible liability for damage to property and bodily injury or
damage to persons which may result from, or be caused by, the public exhibition of pyrotechnics or any act(s) or omission(s)
on the part of the applicant(s) or the applicant’s agents, servants, employees, or subcontractors presenting the public
exhibition. The Division Director, or designee, may deny an application as deemed necessary to protect the public health,
safety, and welfare, or to protect the natural resources of the park unit.
History Note: Authority G.S. 14-410; 14-415; 113-35;
Eff. February 1, 1976;
Amended Eff. October 1, 1984; January 1, 1983;
Temporary Amendment Eff. July 2, 1997.
Temporary Amendment Expired September 29, 1998.
Amended Eff. April 1, 1999.
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It appears the prohibition is still in effect in NC state parks,sadly.:(
Georgia is also off limits.South Carolina is fine as is Virginia.So we have nearby options.
But this is ridiculous.
 
Yeah I would have been surprised if NC allowed it. That would be far too radical for the Down East Good Ol' Boy Network to consider. If you're planning to camp in NC though, just go to one of the National Forests. You are allowed to carry and shoot in the National Forests. The rules aren't overly elaborate either, basically a certain minimum distance from any roads or campsites. I've gone shooting in Pisgah several times.
 
SECTION .0900 - FIREARMS: EXPLOSIVES: FIRES: ETC.
15A NCAC 12B .0901 FIREARMS: WEAPONS: EXPLOSIVES
(a) No person except authorized park employees, their agents, or contractors, or officers of the state shall carry or possess
firearms, airguns, bows and arrows, sling shots, or lethal missiles of any kind within any park.
Click to expand...

This Rule in the North Carolina Administrative Code is very interesting, particularly since it appears to have been pre-empted by subsequent statutory law.

§ 14‑415.23. Statewide uniformity.

It is the intent of the General Assembly to prescribe a uniform system for the regulation of legally carrying a concealed handgun. To insure uniformity, no political subdivisions, boards, or agencies of the State nor any county, city, municipality, municipal corporation, town, township, village, nor any department or agency thereof, may enact ordinances, rules, or regulations concerning legally carrying a concealed handgun. A unit of local government may adopt an ordinance to permit the posting of a prohibition against carrying a concealed handgun, in accordance with G.S. 14‑415.11(c), on local government buildings, their appurtenant premises, and parks. (1995, c. 398, s. 1.)
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Good research,gc70.
Perhaps there's hope after all.
Now, how do we sort it all out to see if State Park carry can be legally done?
BTW,I just checked Handgunlaw.us out of curiousity.They show NC SP carry as still off limits due to 15A NCAC 12B .0901.But they do make errors.
So many conflictions in too many states for them to be perfect.
 
Georgia just this past spring decided to allow its people ccw in state parks! Hey and we can take our gun to supper now too. Oh joy!
 
Duke jr- I am trying to get on the Attorney General's website to see what is involved in getting an advisory opinion, but the site has been working intermittently for a few days.
 
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