Update to my 45acp info / help question

[tswenson]

UPDATE: I made some more adjustments to the taper crimp and cam up with the following results for your inspection and response. In the pictures the measurements are from left to right pic 1224 is on the left and pic 1226 is on the right. Pic 1228 is an attempt to show the taper crimp only.
The measurements are again from left to right as follows
1: OAL1.209 Taper crimped to .468 fit flush sticks slightly on removal.
2: OAL1.209 Taper crimped to .468 fit flush drops out perfectly.
3: OAL1.201 Taper crimped to .467 fit flush drops out perfectly.
4: OAL1.210 Taper crimped to .467 fit flush sticks slightly on removal.
5: OAL1.211 Taper crimped to .469 fit flush sticks slightly on removal.
6: OAL1.211 Taper crimped to .468 fit flush sticks slightly on removal.
7: OAL1.204 Taper crimped to .466 fit flush drops out perfectly.
8: OAL1.205 Taper crimped to .467 fit flush drops out perfectly.

I did as suggested and used a black marker to blacken the bullet to try and see where it was hanging up and could not see any markings. From what I can see from these measurements the OAL has to be in the 1.201 to 1.209 range. I don’t know why number one stuck slightly as it measured the same as number 2 that worked great maybe I measured the two a little differently.

Question one, I keep hearing the term “head space” what does it mean?
And question two, is the OAL different for each gun or can it be different? I see the OAL posted as 1.230” and mine are for the most part .020 to .025” shorter is this a problem or not.

Thanks again for all the help Tom

 

[rcmodel]

I'm not seeing any Magic-Marker ink on the cases & bullet shanks themselves.
That and the bullet shanks need to be fully colored, and tried in the chamber to tell anything at all.

I am seeing, or think I am seeing, some slight shiny brass right at the edge of the case mouths.

Try chamfering & deburring the case mouths before seating and crimping and see if that helps.
May just be uneven case mouth edges or burs getting deformed by seating & crimping.

rc

 

[918v]

I crimp to .472-.473".

 

[rcmodel]

US GI National Match & Ball 230 grain ammo is crimped between .469" to .471" depending on who loaded it.

I think .472" - .473" is too big, and .467" - .468" is too small.

rc

 

[243winxb]

COL-Crimp-Ogive-Headspace

it doesn't drop out as easy, its not stuck but I have to rap the barral a little to get it to drop out. I dont know if this is alright or not and the over all length is 1.212"

You have shortened your COL, this may solve the problem. Some throats are tight. This can cause a little drag. As long as the action fully closes, you are OK. On firing the case will be removed.

From what I can see from these measurements the OAL has to be in the 1.201 to 1.209 range.

Each loaded round may vari in COL by as much as .010" because of the loading processs. As each bullets ogive can be slightly different, you want to keep all ammo to under the maximum allowed to fit your firearm.

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I keep hearing the term “head space” what does it mean?

A 45acp headspaces on the case mouth.The distance from the face of the closed breech of a firearm to the surface in the chamber on which the cartridge case seats.

, is the OAL different for each gun or can it be different?

Yes, with many different types of bullets, chamber sizes, these will all make a difference. Measuring the COL on the nose of any bullet is not always accurate.

[/URL][/IMG] Click photos for larger view.

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[243winxb]

Saami & Remington Golden Saber Bullets

SAAMI has drawings & working measurement of loaded rounds & chambers here> http://www.saami.org/specifications_and_information/index.cfm?page=CC This link is to the 45 acp "Match" > http://www.saami.org/PubResources/CC_Drawings/Pistol/45%20Automatic%20Match.pdf When the ogive is a problem. Remington Golden Saber Bullets have 2 different diameters. The base @ .451" & the nose/ogive .445" Why would Rem. do this? Possibly because some 45acp firearms have tighter then needed throats.This design would make for more reliable chambering. Another reason may be that the lead core will not seperate from the jacket as easy?? Less bullet bearing surface would reduce pressure also.

 

[Walkalong]

I think .472" - .473" is too big, and .467" - .468" is too small.

I agree.

 

[rsrocket1]

Looks like your COL is too long. The 3rd picture with the marked bullet looks like there is marker rubbed off on the right side.

Load a sized, flared case to where the angle meets the vertical side of the bullet right at the case mouth. Then crimp just enough to remove the flare (but certainly no more than 0.001" narrower). If you are using a Lee FCD, go ahead and use it to iron out the flare. See if that lets the cartridge drop into the chamber freely.

I make Lee TL-452-230-TC's which dropped out of the mold at 0.4525" and they will not plunk into the chamber until I seated to that spot. My COL is 1.1700". They feed and shoot perfectly in my Thompson Auto Ordnance 1911 which normally only shoots reliably with RN bullets. Instead of my normal 5.0g Bullseye, I've reduced the load to 4.4g max and shot several hundred at 4.0g last week with great accuracy and perfect function.