US gov. paying for substandard ammo for Afghan military

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http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/27/world/asia/27ammo.html?_r=1&hp=&oref=slogin&pagewanted=print

March 27, 2008
Supplier Under Scrutiny on Aging Arms for Afghans
By C. J. CHIVERS

This article was reported by C. J. Chivers, Eric Schmitt and Nicholas Wood and written by Mr. Chivers.

Since 2006, when the insurgency in Afghanistan sharply intensified, the Afghan government has been dependent on American logistics and military support in the war against Al Qaeda and the Taliban.

But to arm the Afghan forces that it hopes will lead this fight, the American military has relied since early last year on a fledgling company led by a 22-year-old man whose vice president was a licensed masseur.

With the award last January of a federal contract worth as much as nearly $300 million, the company, AEY Inc., which operates out of an unmarked office in Miami Beach, became the main supplier of munitions to Afghanistan’s army and police forces.

Since then, the company has provided ammunition that is more than 40 years old and in decomposing packaging, according to an examination of the munitions by The New York Times and interviews with American and Afghan officials. Much of the ammunition comes from the aging stockpiles of the old Communist bloc, including stockpiles that the State Department and NATO have determined to be unreliable and obsolete, and have spent millions of dollars to have destroyed.

Isn't this 40 year old comm bloc ammo that the .gov is paying to destroy, the same ammo that many of us would gladly PAY THEM for? :banghead: Isn't p art of why the milsurp for 7.62x39 and 7.62x54R has dried up, b/c we bought so frickin' much of it, or there's a political ban on letting us buy the chinese stuff? I remember 25 years ago my dad bought crates of old 9mm and 8mm Mauser milsurp in the shotgun news that was in worse shape than what they describe in the article, corrosive primers and half the rounds were duds but it was still so dirt cheap that it was a good deal. Oh the frustration. We went from sending a man to the moon to this kind of .gov incompetence.
 
So there's where all the surplus ammo went...

http://www.newsobserver.com/nation_world/story/1014586.html
Mar 27, 2008 02:23 AM

U.S. supplier sent aging ammo to Afghanistan

C.J. Chivers, The New York Times

Since 2006, when the insurgency in Afghanistan sharply intensified, the Afghan government has been dependent on American logistics and military support in the war against al-Qaida and the Taliban.

But to arm the Afghan forces that it hopes will lead this fight, the U.S. military has relied since early last year on a fledgling company led by a 22-year-old man whose vice president was a licensed masseur.

With the award in January 2007 of a federal contract worth as much as nearly $300 million, the company, AEY Inc., which operates out of an unmarked office in Miami Beach, Fla., became the main supplier of munitions to Afghanistan's army and police forces.

Since then, the company has provided ammunition that is more than 40 years old and in decomposing packaging, according to an examination of the munitions by The New York Times and interviews with U.S. and Afghan officials. Much of the ammunition comes from the aging stockpiles of the old Communist bloc, including stockpiles that the State Department and NATO have determined to be unreliable and obsolete and have spent millions of dollars to have destroyed.

In purchasing munitions, the contractor has also worked through middlemen and a shell company on a federal list of entities suspected of illegal arms trafficking.

Moreover, tens of millions of the rifle and machine-gun cartridges were manufactured in China, making their procurement a possible violation of U.S. law. The company's president, Efraim E. Diveroli, was also secretly recorded in a conversation that suggested corruption in his company's purchase of more than 100 million aging rounds in Albania, according to an audio files of the conversation.

This week, after repeated inquiries by The Times about AEY's performance, the Army suspended the company from any future federal contracting, citing the shipment of Chinese ammunition and claiming that Diveroli misled the Army about the origins of the munitions.

It's 'junk,' Afghan says

But problems with the ammunition were evident last fall in places like Nawa, Afghanistan, an outpost near the Pakistani border, where an Afghan lieutenant colonel surveyed the rifle cartridges on his police station's dirty floor. Soon after arriving there, the cardboard boxes had split open and their contents spilled out, revealing ammunition manufactured in China in 1966.

"This is what they give us for the fighting," said the colonel, Amanuddin, who like many Afghans has only one name. "It makes us worried, because too much of it is junk." Ammunition as it ages over decades often becomes less powerful, reliable and accurate.

In addition to this week's suspension, AEY is under investigation by the Department of Defense's inspector general and Immigration and Customs Enforcement, prompted by complaints about the quality and origins of ammunition it provided, and allegations of corruption.

Diveroli, in a brief telephone interview late last year, denied any wrongdoing. "I know that my company does everything 100 percent on the up and up, and that's all I'm concerned about," he said.

He referred questions to a lawyer, Hy Shapiro, who offered a single statement by e-mail. "While AEY continues to work very hard to fulfill its obligations under its contract with the U.S. Army, its representatives are not prepared at this time to sit and discuss the details," he wrote.
 
Reading deeper in the story you will see.

The purchases, Mr. Trebicka said, were a flip: Albania sold ammunition to Evdin for $22 per 1,000 rounds
 
If the price of oil keeps going up they'll likely lose money delivering all that ammo. I wonder what the total order will amount to in tons.

John
 
Agreed, I would have GLADLY taken a whole buch of this ammo off the govermnets hands, asd I'm sure many others here would have too.Recovering some, if not all, of what it cost them is WAY better than spending EVEN MORE money to destroy it.Our brilliant leaders and tax dollars, at work yet again......
morons.......:cuss:
That said, does the govt not even look into in the least who they give military contracts to? seems like 1 low paid govt employee touring this guys wharehouse/shop whatever and looking at a couple boxes of ammo would have prevented all this.....
 
Albania sold ammunition to Evdin for $22 per 1,000 rounds
anyone have Albania's phone number? I REALLY want some of that ammo at that price!!!! Even if 75% were duds, it's still a steal, at thats not including the fact you could likely salvage some of the bullets and brass to realod with on top of it......
GIMME-GIMME-GIMME-GIMME!:D
Anyone here an Albanian citizen who wants to set up a big, fat THR group ammo buy?
 
Arghh. I still have a spam can or two of some 1950s com-bloc 7.62x54R I bought (with after-tax $ of course) back when it was "only" about 13 cents a round. The NYT is screaming "waste fraud and abuse" because the government is using OUR money to keep this stuff out of our hands at 2 cents a round... and then they're going to pay on top of that to destroy it too. :cuss:
 
Having seen some of the ammo these folks shoot, if they say it's bad - it's BAD.
So this is Chinese ammo, sold to Albania, then to the U.S., then to Afghanistan? Lot's of folks making money off of this one...
 
the U.S. military has relied since early last year on a fledgling company led by a 22-year-old man whose vice president was a licensed masseur.

Bill Gates was a student when he founded Microsoft.

Not sure what that has to do with anything.

People, this is the New York Times don't forget.
 
At the very least if it's found that Diveroli knowingly supplied trash ammo to people fighting along side our troops I hope they hang him out to dry.
 
I'd bet that the middleman never even saw the ammo. He probably somehow found out the Albanians had a bazillion rounds available they didn't want, that Afghanistan wanted a plethora themselves, and figured he'd make a buck off the deal. Sounds like the sort of thing I would have thought clever when I was 22.
 
Afghanistan still has tons and tons of ammo stashed everywhere in concrete bunkers and caves. I have seen pics of ammo about to be blownup and the containers were pristine and stored in 68 degree caves.

I'll agree most of the munitions in Afghanistan are very questionable but there are millions of rounds still hidden.

I wish an EOD guy that has seen this will speak up.
 
the U.S. military has relied since early last year on a fledgling company led by a 22-year-old man whose vice president was a licensed masseur.
Who cares about his age or his masseuse license??? Bill Gates didn't finish college, should we deride Microsoft as being some 2-bit software company since it's chairman and founder couldn't stick it out for 4 years?
 
Who cares about his age or his masseuse license??? Bill Gates didn't finish college, should we deride Microsoft as being some 2-bit software company since it's chairman and founder couldn't stick it out for 4 years?

Well they are, but thats neither here nor there.:D



Who cares about how crappy the ammo is, at $22.00 per 1000, I'll just use the brass!
 
Fuzzy,

The ammunition in Afghanistan (and Iraq) runs the gamut from stuff that made me a little uncomfortable just picking it up to take to a disposal site to what you described, "pristine and stored in 68 degree caves." Most of it is towards the middle; stuff that I would (if I could) take home to use myself.

As for the "millions of rounds still hidden," I have absolutely no doubt.
 
But to arm the Afghan forces that it hopes will lead this fight, the American military has relied since early last year on a fledgling company led by a 22-year-old man whose vice president was a licensed masseur.

Meh, so what, a couple of teen age girls in the UK showed how easy it was to run an arms service while in high school...

I have lost the link to the BBC article regarding this.
 
Am I the only one that thinks this smells like an inside job? Who got paid off, and how much, to award this shell company the contract - I don't believe the 22 year old ran this alone - in fact he's probably just the guy whose clean name was on the filing.
 
From this article: http://www.theage.com.au/news/world...n-junkyard-ammo/2008/03/27/1206207298518.html

In 2004, AEY listed Efraim Diveroli, then 18, as an officer with a 1% ownership stake.

The younger Diveroli's munitions experience appeared to be limited to a short-lived job in Los Angeles for Botach Tactical, a military and police supply company owned by his uncle.

By 2005, when Mr Diveroli became AEY's president at age 19, the company was bidding across a spectrum of government agencies and providing paramilitary equipment for American aid to Pakistan, Bolivia and elsewhere.

Two federal officials involved in contracting in Baghdad said AEY quickly developed a bad reputation. "They weren't reliable, or if they did come through, they did after many excuses," said one of them.

Botach has a reputation on the various gun message boards as a hit or miss supply company, with bogus charges, late orders, and incorrect items being shipped. I myself have never ordered from them, but they have a great deal on Glock magazines. Looks like when young Efraim left Botach, he took their mindset on customer service with him.

Its people like this that have caused the surplus ammo situation to get as bad as it has.
 
A few weeks ago there was a massive explosion at an ammunition depot in Albania. I think 10 people were killed and 300 injured. Supposedly this is where the ammo came from. Albania has 100,000 tons of old ammo from the communist days that they are trying to dispose of.
 
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