US still buying M60 machine guns?

[PvtPyle]

You are right. I mis spoke and should have been more clear. With the stamped receiver and interchangeable parts with the M249, it is more of a M249 (the M249 was originally made in 7.62 NATO and called something else, I cant remember what).

Anyway, we got them to replace the M240 in dismounted operations, but still have the M240 for vehicles and on the wall.

 

[det.pat]

having been a 60 gunner in the 1980's i had no problem with it and much preferred it to the m203 i was also offered. i usually utilized the wermacht style of standing or moving fire, that is to put the left bipod leg down and use it as a forward grip ala' the mg42. [which the m60 is a partial ripoff of, along with the fg42].
pat

 

[Jeff22]

the M60

The FN MAG/FN 58/M240 is in 7.62mm.

The FN M249 is in 5.56mm. I don't believe there was EVER a 7.62mm version of this weapon.

I am retired after 20 years in the national guard, as an SP in the ANG and an MP in the ARNG. We had M60s during my whole career. They always broke or jammed. Even when we got new weapons they broke or jammed. Our usual experiencewas to take three or four freshly cleaned and lubed guns to the range to do M60 qual and have all of the guns down before lunch and then spend the afternoon trying to get them to work again. I had the same experience when I went to CATM instructor school in 1991, and there we were using brand new M60A3s.

We got new M249s in 1997. I really liked them, and was able to shoot one of those off the shoulder, something you couldn't really do with an M60. (I particularly liked the aperture sights) However, I've read some AARs from Iraq that have enumerated MANY reliability and durability problems with the M249, and I've seen many pictures from "the sandbox" of M249s held together with duct tape. My happy experience with the M249 was probably due to the fact that we were issued brand new guns.

The M249 weighs about 15 pounds.
The M60 weighs about 22 pounds.
The M240 weighs about 26 pounds.

I've never had the oppertunity to fire the M240, but it's supposed to be VERY reliable. (I never got to shoot the M2 .50 cals that my MP company had, either. Nobody knew how to set the headspace right, so the guns never functioned)

I'm not sure if the Air Force has bought any M240s for issue to the security forces. I know the unit I retired from still has elderly M60s that break all the time.

 

[OEF_VET]

The FN M249 is in 5.56mm. I don't believe there was EVER a 7.62mm version of this weapon.

Here you go.

(I never got to shoot the M2 .50 cals that my MP company had, either. Nobody knew how to set the headspace right, so the guns never functioned)

Why didn't YOU take the time to learn to do it properly? Afterall, it was a weapon you were supposedly willing to take into combat. Myself, I wouldn't want to go into combat with a weapon I didn't understand. So, even when I was an 11B1OC2, I learned how to set headspace and timing on the M-2HB's mounted on our 113's. Of course, it's been 14 years, so I'm relatively certain I couldn't do it now. But then, I could. Just goes back to the poor training mentioned earlier.

 

[SIGarmed]

The M60 series are second generation GPMGs, designed to be fired from the shoulder as they are one-man weapons. Why wouldn't any one like them?

The M60E3 is designated as a crew served medium machine gun. Unlike the M60E2 it does not have the "pig" barrel of vietnam fame. It can overheat if it is fired in prolonged bursts, but every machine gunner and those trained to use it knows this. The guns come with an extra barrel just like the M249 SAW. The M60E3 has a forward pistol grip unlike the older model. It can be utilized this way because it is lighter in the barrel.

If it isn't taken care of it can go down just like anything else. The ones in the USMC inventory got old. They were used so much then needed to be replaced IMHO.

 

[entropy]

OK. Gotta put my .02 in. Armorer, US Army, 86-88. Broke the record at Ft. Jackson Supply School for M60 dis/reassembly. My reward was to hold it out at arms length until the last student was done.
The 60 had some good features, and two very bad ones. No other MG has to have the gas system cap wired on. And if the gas piston is reinserted backwards, it becomes a very heavy straight-pull action rifle. I had to fix a bunch that another Armorer did exactly that to.
I liked the SAW's, but Jeff White has already pointed out the differences in the missions, and the inadequacy of the 5.56mm for GPMG use. I agree. I got out before the M240B's were fielded, so I can't comment on them personally.
I preferred to fire the 60 off the shoulder, but I am big enough to do so, not all troops are. I found short bursts to be quite devastating fired as such.
Jeff22, I agree with OEF_VET, you should have learned to maintain the M2's yourself. Setting the headspace on them isn't hard, and hey, you'd have got to fire them.

The M60 is a decent GPMG, Kokalis aside, when properly maintained and serviced. It is just a total PITA to do so. I carried one whenever possible, but not every soldier is an Armorer.

 

[SIGarmed]

No other MG has to have the gas system cap wired on

That was a drawback but it's only that part on the outside. The damn wire used to come undone sometimes when the guns saw hard field use. How does someone manage to put a gas piston in backwards? That person would have to be a retard.

 

[entropy]

He was. According to the instructor at the Advanced Armorer course I took, @ 8% of them get put in backwards. 8 out of 100!

 

[Khaotic]

Oh man.. Entropy, you have my everlastin sympathy...

Having to go through that at Jackson right when a majority of the weapons used in training were nearing the end of their service life and they were trying to squeeze every last bit of use from them must have made it awful "interesting" during your time there.

At least you had a (relatively) cool arms room to work in, cause, yanno... there's hell, and then there's Jackson, and most Jackson grads would consider hell to be airconditioned luxury.

Most of the m60 jams I dealt with were belt link/feed issues, which is dealable, tho annoying.

-K

 

[entropy]

Actually, My Basic and AIT were at Jackson. The incident with the reversed gas pistons was at 'The Planet' , Ft. Ord. You are right, the 60 's at Jackson were probably assembled from parts leftover from Vietnam that didn't pass specs. The ones the 'mechanically challenged' Armorer got a hold of were actually freshly re-arsenalled ones straight from Anniston.(Not Jennifer.) Because of his SNAFU, I got a Letter of Commendation from his CO, and the mandate that I accompany them to every range they had. (such sacrifices we make for our country.)

Hell is less humid than Ft. Jackson. I've been there; It's called Ft. Hunter Liggett, CA.

 

[BigG]

"It has to be mounted on the tripod!" Cdr. Mohr

 

[RevDisk]

There was an article in Shotgun News a few months back on the M-60. The author basically enumerated a lot of problems with the gun- a majority involving the fact that poorly trained troops could easily put it together wrong.

I gather the author never had to try to fix a broken firing pin in the dark with an M60.

 

[Blackhawk 6]

I have used both the M-60 and the M-240 and have seen no appreciable difference in reliability. If anything the M-240's had more problems. FWIW, the M-60's were both rebuilds on Vietnam-era weapons. The M-240's were brand new.

 

[Onmilo]

M60E4???
E designates an experimental weapon, if it is now Standard A it will be classed as an 'A' weapon.
The E4/A4 features light weight, verticle foregrip that gets the support hand away from the hot barrel, a carry handle attached to the quick change barrel, no goofy asbestos mitt needed to change the barrel,
improved belt pull and better feed alignment.
Better attaching points for a soft or hard carry bag that can be affixed directly to the gun.
The sear and disconnector interface is improved and it is claimed, and must be true, since the SEALS appear to love these guns, that these guns are far less likely to run away until the belt is expended.

 

[wingnutx]

The E4 is what the Navy calls a MK43. It is still issued to SEALS, and was issued to Seabees until very recently.

The chinooks I rode on in Iraq recently still had old vietnam-era M60s on the back ramp.

 

[PvtPyle]

I am pretty sure that "XM" denotes an experimental weapon. XM-15=M16. XM-107=M107 (the Barrett).

 

[Nicky Santoro]

"After working with the 60 in Vietnam I wouldn't wish that on anyone

Kevin"

My experience under the same circumstances was the direct opposite.
BTDT, and damned glad I don't have to do it again.