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USAF anti-2nd amendment?

Discussion in 'Activism Discussion and Planning' started by ctrout, Aug 17, 2007.

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  1. ctrout

    ctrout Member

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    I am an E-6 in the active duty Air Force. By volunteering myself to defend this country with my life, there are certain constitutional rights that I have knowingly accepted some restrictions of. For instance, as an Air Force member, I must support the Commander In Chief, even if I think he's a jackass. It is against the law (UCMJ) for me to burn the flag or publicly speak out against certain political positions based on national security. It's even possible that I could face retribution for this post if it gets to my supervision.

    Now on to the meat of my post. I just returned from a very successful combat mission in Afghanistan where I had tactical control of 15 of America's finest aircraft weapons loaders. Upon my return, I was ordered to report to Goodfellow NCO Academy for a 6 week leadership class. The class is in Texas and my cwp is honored here so I brought my Kimber with me. Regulations dictate that personal weapons must be stored in the armory while on base so I turned in my weapon and filed the appropriate paperwork with the armory as well as with the school commandant. I was very disturbed when yesterday I was informed that the commandant has decided that I will not be allowed to draw my weapon from the armory until my permanent departure from the base. Am I wrong to be VERY frustrated by this?
     
  2. 40SW

    40SW Member

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    Its a good thing you didnt bring a Colt Commander. :):banghead:
    but seriously, I am 100% in agreement with your frustration. I guess only officers and MPs are allowed sidearms on duty. , which is unfair, but then again, as a firearms instructor and CWP holder, I can't bring my ccw into a library, courthouse, hospital, postoffice, bar, etc. Life aint fair, but I am 100% behind your frustration. Its wrong and insulting.
     
  3. HankB

    HankB Member

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    And of course, they didn't tell you any of this before you checked in your pistol, right?

    Do the regulations state you MAY check the weapon out when leaving base? Unless weapon checkout is at the commandant's discretion, then is it possible that the commandant, himself, may be in violation of a standing order?

    I guess they now want to ensure your loyalty by seizing your property and holding it hostage . . . you might ask him if that's the case.
     
  4. ctrout

    ctrout Member

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    They didn't tell me before I checked it in and I didn't expect to carry it on duty. I was seeking permission to exercise my constitutional right as a citizen and sign my pistol out this weekend for legal carry off base. It is never legal to carry concealed on base (federal property) so I wouldn't even consider that.
     
  5. AirForceShooter

    AirForceShooter Member

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    You think it's just the AF?
    It's every branch. The DOD in general is anti-gun.

    AFS
     
  6. Correia

    Correia Moderator Emeritus

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    L&P is closed. This is for Activism, so please, only posts that help the original poster come up with ideas and a plan for action.
     
  7. tenbase

    tenbase Member

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    how can this be, I separated 7 years ago :cool:

    yep, its not just AF either man. buddy in the Marines had a nearly identical situation occur. its irony on the order of Washington DC being one of the most tyrannical jurisdictions in the country.

    what can ya do.
     
  8. ctrout

    ctrout Member

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    Update. I have addressed it through my chain of command which is the only appropriate method and my flight leader told me that the commandant is currently reconsidering her decision pending verification of the credentials that I provided. I feel guilty until proven innocent but at least I'm closer to justice now. I should have the final answer by C.O.B. today.
     
  9. Scorpiusdeus

    Scorpiusdeus member

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    Welcome to the military sport. You don't have the same rights you are fighting to protect. You did agree to this ya know.

    And since we're here, what is "tactical control" of personnel vs say you led or were in charge of same?
     
  10. alsaqr

    alsaqr Member

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    Few, if any, military bases allow carry of personal handguns by servicemembers or visitors. Ft. Sill, OK is like that; concealed carry is not allowed. i am an Army retiree. In order to shoot and hunt on Ft. Sill; the guns that i take there must be registered on base. i do not have a problem with that. Many of my guns are not registered on base because they are never taken there.
     
  11. Jimmie

    Jimmie Member

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    That sounds like fluff you'd write on a performance report. :scrutiny:

    You're on an AETC base and you're surprised they've got gay policies? Good on ya for taking it up your chain, though. Hopefully they change their mind.
     
  12. wideym

    wideym Member

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    You don't become a commandate without aways covering your ass.
    If a student has an incident involving a firearm he nominaly has under his control, he could kiss his carrer goodbye. So he instutes a no privately owned weapons will be released until you leave policy. I'm suprised you were not read the riot act just by bringing it with you. Most tdy orders specifiy no privately owned weapons allowed at all.

    When I was my units armorer at Ft. Campbell you had to jump through all sorts of hoops to draw your personal weapon from the arms room. You had to submit a request in writing 48 hours in advance to the Company commander or XO for their approval. It had to state when you wanted to draw it, for how long, where you took it, and when you were returning it.

    The former armorer was a complete a-hole who would'nt let you draw it on the weekend, even though he lived in the barracks.
     
  13. 41magsnub

    41magsnub Member

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    This policy is the entire reason I elected to not bring any guns with me while I was in the Army. I do not like not having any control over that much personal property.

    My guns got to have a nice vacation in my parents gun safe and come out for hunting season only for 4 years.
     
  14. HankB

    HankB Member

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    I see part of the problem right there . . .

    But rather than go on an off-topic rant about the suitability of members of the fair sex being placed in command of men training for COMBAT, I'll ask - is there some way you can store your pistol off base? Perhaps in a safety deposit box at a local bank? Or are there any storage companies in town with 24-hour access to their facilities?
     
  15. ctrout

    ctrout Member

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    It seems that some folks are misunderstanding what I have tried to communicate in the original post. I am not trying to carry a weapon around ON BASE. I am not attempting concealed carry ON BASE. I am here for 6 weeks so I brought my pistol with me on the 1600 mile drive. I carried it legally in my vehicle as every state I traveled through recognizes my Idaho permit. I am trying to sign the weapon out for legal concealed carry OFF BASE. As for keeping it at an off base facility, that's a moot point now because now that I have signed it into the armory, I am unable to withdraw it again without permission and it appears that permission will not be granted until I return to my base in Idaho. And no, I did not sign up or agree to being disarmed. I have a safe full of guns at home station that I can take out whenever I want to without anyone's permission and put as many rounds as I want through them. I was at the mercy of the individual who won't grant permission only because I had no other legal options for storage when I arrived. There are students in my class who are stationed here where the school is who do not have to ask anyone's permission because they have a house in which to store their weapons.
     
  16. SigfanUSAF

    SigfanUSAF Member

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    ctrout, as a USAF veteran, I strongly advise you to edit out the central portion in the top paragraph of your post.

    I feel your pain, it wasn't quite as strict pre-war, but it seemed to be dependant on the mood of the commandant on any given day.
     
  17. USAFrenegade

    USAFrenegade Member

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    ctrout, as security forces I can tell you this if you go to the armory during normal business hours, and fill out a 1297 form and you can check out your wepon for upto 24hrs. if they tell you they cant do that talk to THEIR flight chief.
     
  18. JamesM

    JamesM Member

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    I agree. Few banks have access to safety deposit boxes 24hrs/day but you could just rent a small storage unit.
     
  19. sandy4570

    sandy4570 Member

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    Staff sergent ctrout
    Don't feel bad about the USAF being anti gun , I was in the army and they locked up my M1 Garand and Mini14 for years and draw that weapon out requiered more paper work than getting the hummvee off the motor pool.
    My friend and I resorted to keep our weapon off base by pawn them for $5 (I still need to register them with the provost marshall) .When we had money for ammo we would paid the pawn shop $5 and got our rifle and pistol back. The pawn shop I used was the one that sold guns and vhs tapes to me so they knew me and I could trust them . I don't know if you want to go to that route because your Kimber is sure cost more than $5
    You can keep the gun with someone who live off base too but it is more risky because of the BE
     
  20. sandy4570

    sandy4570 Member

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    On a second thought, may be it is a bad idea to pawn your prized Kimber in the pawn shop especially if you are a new guy in town . It took me a few years to trust any of the pawn broker and proved to them that I am financially responsible and a good customer.
     
  21. Green Lantern

    Green Lantern Member

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    The War aside, maybe if the Armed Forces didn't force soldiers to give up basic rights that they risk their lives to let the REST of us have, they wouldn't have to worry as much about meeting recruitment quotas - ?
     
  22. Cosmoline

    Cosmoline Member

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    This is a fascinating business, and it goes beyond the AF. Indeed in some ways it's a very, very old notion that goes back long before the current gun debate. The officer class was literally the upper class and the enlisted and NCO's were lower class. The notion that lower class men, even soldiers, would be allowed to have sidearms was anathema to this scheme. They had rifles, and those rifles could only be loaded or utilized under precise orders from the officer class. That's what drill is all about. The officer's sidearm was used primarily to enforce discipline by killing any men who got out of line. It has virtually no use in combat, Hollywood aside. In contrast to the rifleman's rifle, it's always kept loaded and ready to fire. You can even see this when armies surrender. The officers are sometimes allowed to keep their sidearms because it's a way to keep the men in line. When Lee surrendered to Grant, for example.

    Even today, the notion of an enlisted man with a personal weapon, esp. a sidearm, rubs a lot of general officers the wrong way. They assume there will be "trouble" if the rabble are allowed to have personal firearms. Though of course these days the concerns are particularly bizarre given the amount of firepower enlisted men frequently have at their command.
     
  23. ctrout

    ctrout Member

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    The commandant is enlisted. Only three pay grades separate her from myself. And just as an aside, Sandy4570, the AF rank for an E-6 is Technical Sergeant. Staff Sergeant is an E-5 in the AF.;)
     
  24. sandy4570

    sandy4570 Member

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    Technical Sergent Ctrout , I don't mean to demote you .:) I hope you get your Kimber out from the armory .How do you plan to store your Kimber ? I could not imagine keeping $1,200 pistol in the locker that is not secure ,do you have seperate quarter or do you have to share with other personel ?
     
  25. bogie

    bogie Member

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    The military is not anti-gun.

    It just assumes that _all_ service members are of equal intelligence - the lowest common denominator.

    Same reason they didn't let us have sharp pointy objects in basic... They figured it'd result in sick call.

    If you're on post, and need a weapon, then I'm sure some will be available. If you need to travel somewhere, tell the CO that you need to boomstick, and you're taking it off post.
     
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