Used S&W Gunshop Finds

Status
Not open for further replies.
K

Kind of Blued

Member
Joined
Sep 7, 2007
Messages
3,676
Location
Rocky Mountains
I'm planning on setting some money aside for the day that I run across a deal on a used 3" or 4" pre-lock .357.

The number and variations of S&W revolvers is mind-boggling, so it seems that I'll have to do a lot of homework. Once I know what I'm looking at, its condition, and going through Jim March's "workout" stickied above, I'm left with a question.

What models do you guys tend to find deals on? I understand some models (27, for example) is afflicted with a sort of "collector's premium". Are there any specific models that were made in much larger numbers, and are more likely to serve as an affordable working gun?

Even on gunbroker, "Buy It Now" prices often vary drastically. Nevertheless, it looks like M28s can be had for decent prices. I'm wondering if there are other models to keep an eye out for.
 
You used to see a lot of 4" Mod 19's amd 66's for short money that were old Police trade-in but even those seem to have increasde,

If I found a pre-lock 586/686 I would jump on it.
 
If I found a pre-lock 586/686 I would jump on it.
Click to expand...

Good call. I forgot there were pre-lock 686s, but apparently it was around for 16 years before the lock ensued. It also looks like there was never a 686+ made without a lock. :(
 
It also looks like there was never a 686+ made without a lock.
Click to expand...

Yep, there sure was. I have two of them. The 686-4 and 686-5 revisions are pre-lock 686+ 7 shot guns.
I tend to find more used 686-5 s around used than any other for whatever reason.

Actually the only revision of 686 that has the lock is the current incarnation , the 686-6.

Also, if someone wanted to, it's a very simple conversion to put a 7 round cylinder on an originally six round 686.
 
Last edited:
It also looks like there was never a 686+ made without a lock.
Click to expand...

They were made for about five years before the lock was added to them. They are out there and not that rare.

Best pre-lock S&W value is I believe a 28 as you've identified. The other reason to favor this model is that it is often better built than most other models other than a 27 or 29, and there are reasons for that. 27s and 28s often started out the same on the assembly line, and then ones that were found to have cosmetic flaws or tiny problems ended up with a cheaper finish and sold as a 28. The best workers were assigned to the 27 line - it was the flagship gun for a long time, and then also the 29 line after it was introduced. The one 28 I've owned, in terms of sheer mechanical perfection, was better than the two 27s I've had and equal to or possibly better than my 29. The only other gun I've had in it's technical perfection (and by that I mean even, decent b/c gap, even, well sized cylinder bores, and smooth action without work) besides that 29 was a very early 686, which was built on fresh CNC machinery from what I've learned, and to high levels to help promote the new model. K frames, like the 14, 15, 67, 19, 66, 10, and variants, never got this much attention. Now, before people get upset, I am saying "on average." There are many near-perfect K frames out there. This is to illustrate why the 28 is often the "sleeper" value. It's larger frame makes it less suitable for carrying concealed, but for range, HD, or field use, it is a truly great gun overall and a good value in today's market.

To me the, the 28 is the real sleeper value of S&Ws, and you cannot argue the .357 is a very versatile caliber, from plinking with target grade .38s to standing down big predators with powerful .357s. When shopping for one, make sure it has original grips or deduct $40 to $50 from the book price.

I currently see most S&W prices down a bit since peaking early last year, and I am about ready to buy another 28 in the next couple months when the right deal comes along.

PS - here is a sight to help you decode the S&W revolver nomenclature. Bookmark it and go reference it when you see a gun, and after a while you will get the hang of the system. The first trick is to understand anything starting with "6", two-digit or three, is a stainless variant of a blue gun. After the late 70s, it was simply adding a "6" before the blue gun's model number (e.g, 629 vs. 29), but before that they had unique numbers (e.g., "15" vs. "67 or "19" vs. "66"). The other thing to do is to buy the Standard Catalog of Smith & Wesson by Supica and Nahaas. It is one of the best marque-specific books out there, and it is really, really pretty and profusely color illustrated. It is a great read and coffee table book, not just a dry "blue book."

Here is that web site to help:

http://www.handloads.com/misc/Smith.Model.Changes.asp

Good luck!
 
The link that Oro posted actually doesn't show the L frame revisions , but I pulled this from my own post #325 back in 2007 in the "The 686" Thread.

The dash numbers are manufacturing revisions in S&W revolvers. Its not just 686s, all S&W revolvers have them. What each revision means is entirely dependent on the model. Sometimes it implies small changes, and in other cases somewhat big ones. For example the 686-5 revision is the last model to not have the key lock.
686 ''dash nothing'' - 1980
686-1, 1986 - radius stud package and floating hand
686-M - 1987 recall stamping on earlier versions
686-2, 1987, hammer nose change, bushing and ass'd parts
686-3, 1988, new yoke retention system, 1990 - 2 1/2" barrel introduced.
686-4 1994 - 1998 - many changes including move to 7 shot, sight changes etc.
686-5 revision built with MIM parts and frame-mounted firing pin. varied other changes
686-6 introduction of S&W internal lock
Click to expand...

I'm personally very fond the the models 66 and 686 , and they can be found used often enough.
 
I'm personally very fond the the models 66 and 686
Click to expand...

Thanks for updating that - yes, that list I linked to is only good up to about 1980, and I forgot to mention that. The modern engineering variants and the later models aren't on it, and that is a limitation. But it will teach you your way around the classic S&Ws.

I also am very fond of those guns, and have two of each (one 4" and one snubby of each). I highly reccomend them (or the blue versions).

I went into detail on the 28 since it seems to be the ignored one and a slightly better value in my opinion. If you want a solid shooter, I think CDNN had 3" 65 models (fixed sight .357s) for like $360 recently. They are a good source of LE and security firm turn-ins.
 
Good info guys. I can't wait to actually absorb all of this knowledge. I think the shopping part, and finding a deal will be the most fun part, followed by clapping, giggling, and hopping up and down as the fellow retrieves it from the case. :)

A 4" M28 or a no-lock 686+ would definitely satisfy my current needs; a full-sized steel gun for plinking and winter/open carry. There are some more modern models that I'll look at eventually for more comfortable carry, but for now, I just want a nice revolver with some mojo.

Anyway, keep on tossing opinions & insight my way if you've got em.
 
I think the shopping part, and finding a deal will be the most fun part, followed by clapping, giggling, and hopping up and down as the fellow retrieves it from the case.
Click to expand...

Well, sounds like you are going to do just fine. I believe the months spent angling out the right gun for me, soliciting and evaluating opinions, and then having fun shopping is a major part of the pleasure of finding a gun I "bond" too. Sounds like you will enjoy the process, too, and find the gun you like, keep, and are deeply satisfied with.

One thought - as to following Jim March's "check out" - it's damn good advice. But you need to practice it a few times to know what to feel and look for. Hit up some friends with revolvers, and do the test on theirs until you learn what to feel for and how it feels. Buy a find machinists feeler gauge kit in .001" increments from .001 to .016 at least, or get a combination of gauges to cover that (this is harder than it sounds). Free tip: as well as checking the b/c gap, the next and equally important thing is to do the step-off check, make sure no pressure you can reasonably apply makes that hammer step off the DA sear. If so, this is a sure sign of a very inferior trigger job and the source of headaches. If you can't inspect the gun in person, ask the seller about it and have reason to believe they are competent to evaluate it. Being a dealer does not make that true; verify.
 
I went

into a gun shop I patronize for some ammo the other day,and I spied a Model 27(no dash)4 screw.It had some definite muzzle wear from a holster,and the sideplate had at one time been removed-there was alittle bluing gone at the seam,but the action was great and it had the nice original diamond grips.It was marked $695 and I paid $650-that may seem high,but I collect S&W revolvers,preferably pinned and recessed(where applicable) and I shoot them often,so NIB is not a big selling point for me.I already have a 28,but there is a difference between the two.The only S&W with a lock I own is the TRR Model 22-4,which has no exact pre-lock equivalent(the 1950 Model has no lug under the barrel,which I like to protect the ejector rod)and costs a mint if you could even find one.
 
Oro

You got it right on that S&W catalogue-it is a great source and you can learn something new every time you pick it up.
Speaking of books,"Sixguns" by Elmer Keith is VERY expensive these days,but I found one in a local library.It was damaged(loose binding)so they are going to mend it and call me in a few days when its ready.I can't wait to get into that book.
 
Pay particular attention when buying Bangor Punta era guns.
These are the ones that have the most problems in relation to timing, cylinder gap, headspace and endshake.
It is all correctable and repairable but price accordingly.

The original wooden stocks on the Bangor Punta guns also display the most variations in frame fit and little issues such as open grain, poor finish and checkering and mismatched side colors.
Again price accordingly since original S&W grips bring a premium over replacement stocks and any and all rubber stock sets.
 
Good info here, all of it.

I'd like to add that you shouldn't count out your local gun shops and pawn shops when looking for deals. You just never know what you'll find and sometimes it's not expensive at all...

As an example. We have a Smith Model 15-7 we bought to keep in the house. I paid $295.00 for it from the local indoor range. It orginally came from an armored car service. They just bought about 15 more of them and some Model 64's... still offering them at the same prices. Used but not abused, typical holser wear but nice and tight mechanically.

I spent about $150.00 additional on it to have it parkerized, the cyl bores champered, a new rear sight and the action slicked up by a well known gun smith here in VA. It's a primo home defense gun and range shooter for us.

DSC00938.jpg

My girl absolutely loves it, she can shoot the crap out of it and we have burned thru 1000rnds of .38spl in the time we have owned it (just over a year). This is our go to gun, no matter what and it orginally cost on the lower tier of all the firearms we have.

A pre lock Smith and Wesson is one of the best firearms you will ever own. I hope you find one that suits you.
Will
 
Last edited:
The number and variations of S&W revolvers is mind-boggling, so it seems that I'll have to do a lot of homework. Once I know what I'm looking at, its condition, and going through Jim March's "workout" stickied above, I'm left with a question.
Click to expand...
It is. My mind remains boggled.

I've only been interested in revolvers for a couple years and wasted most of that time since I was making a conscious effort to avoid anything medium sized chambered in .38 special. This comes from having enough .357 brass to float a battleship. If you avoid this pitfall the available pool gets a lot larger - sundry flavors of model 10 f'rinstance.

If you can accept some mild amount of wear you can avoid getting in a money-flinging contest with collectors. Well, usually but not always.

Don't exempt anything local from the "check out" sticky. Specifically, don't give anything "pinned and recessed" a free pass just because it's pinned and recessed. The absolute worst S&W I have is a 28-2 from darkest Bangor Punta (75-79 or thereabouts). Concurrently, one of the nicest I've seen is a 28-2 from the same time - they may well have been put together in adjacent stations. Assume nothing or, as they say, trust everyone but cut the cards.
 
Locally lately I'm seeing a lot of pre-locks like model 10 and 13, 15, 29, 64, 66, 629, and 686. There was one 4" Model 66 in excellent condition for $269. I hesitated and when I went back to make the buy it was gone. Not surprising.
 
I haven't seen much in the last three or four months but last year I picked up these in .357:

Model 13 4" bbl - $325
Model 13 3" bbl - $275
Model 19 nickel 4" bbl in box - $300
Model 520 (the one from 1980) - $360

All were in really nice shape. The model 13 3" bbl had a little wear from carry but not bad.

Things sure have dried up, though. Everyone is holding on to what they have.
 
My personal opinion is that we are in a phase where the 80's ad 90's L frame .357's are undervalued, especially compared to N and K frames. The factory pumped out a ton of 586/686, 581/681 and variants, and everyone now wants a Highway Patrolman or a 19 / 66 with Jordan Troopers on it. "Shoppes" are printing extra long price tags for K frames, so they can fit "a billiondy dollars" on there, but L frames seem to still be reasonable.
 
I'm comparing Phydeaux's prices to those on Gunbroker and wondering; Is it realistic to expect to find $300 J and K-frames if I look often enough locally? People are also telling me that pre-lock 686s and 28s go for little more.

There are more 4" and 6" K-frames on Gunbroker than I can shake a stick at, but anything <4" usually goes for $200 more. I'm guessing these don't pop up locally as often either...
 
Is it realistic to expect to find $300 J and K-frames
Click to expand...

Yes it is! The key is going to a few different gun stores on a regular basis. Over the last 2 years I have picked up a S&W 28-2 4" for $250, a 6" model 27 (no dash) for $299, 1964 Model 36 for $225 and a 1924 5" M&P 4th change for $195.
 
I guess it just seems too good to be true! I'll have to take everyone's word for it... :)

I've been spending every spare cent on "ban-able" stuff, but I'm just dead-tired of it. Its got no soul.

Time to start savin' and huntin'. This'll be fun. :)
 
I saw a good-looking 28 on sale for $400, and this seemed like a good deal. That may be the market price, but it strikes me as being a good value. It doesn't surprise me that others on this thread call them a sleeper. I'm working on assembling my own sleeper cell, you might say.
 
And if you go into the stores often enough, leave them your name and number... and what you are looking for.
And you can get a call before it ever hits the shelf. ;)


Jim
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top