Using slide release over manually retracting the slide.

[stchman]

I have been reading that on 1911s that it is HORRIBLE to use the slide release lever especially when there is no round being chambered.

Let me say I don't own any 1911s.

I have been using the slide release on all of my semi auto pistols for years and no problems.

IMO, the act of shooting a pistol has to be a far more violent reaction than simply dropping the slide with a slide release with no round being chambered.

If the slide release was never meant to release the slide, then why is it even put on the pistol? Why is even called a slide release?

Is this just a case of 1911 folks treating their 1911s like jewelry?

 

[MotorCraft]

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=757893

 

[newfalguy101]

Actually, sometimes that part is called a slide CATCH, and not release.

That being said, I use my thumb to hit the lever and have for years.

 

[GLOOB]

When not dropping a round into the chamber, I don't generally use the slide release. It has nothing to do with hurting the gun. Whenever I clear one of my guns, I ride the slide back under visual and tactile supervision, just to be sure.

Whenever I load a gun, I generally prefer to pull the slide back. I have heard the notion that using a slide release can be difficult under duress. I guess I believe it.

So I just don't use a slide release, in general. I use the slide lock, though.

 

[C0untZer0]

Its a slide release on the Kahr CM9

 

[GLOOB]

Yeah, it's a "slide release" on every gun. That's the accepted terminology. I generally use the "slide release" only to lock the slide back. How's that?

 

[JTQ]

stchman wrote,
I have been reading that on 1911s that it is HORRIBLE to use the slide release lever especially when there is no round being chambered.

Is this just a case of 1911 folks treating their 1911s like jewelry?

I think you may have misunderstood that other thread. It is the act of slamming the slide forward without chambering a round that is the problem with the 1911, not of using the slide release to release the slide.

Simply using the slide release, or slide stop, whichever term you want to use, to release the slide is very common with 1911 users. Most will use their left thumb (right handed shooters) after a mag change and as they get a two handed grip.

I believe you will find that it is the Glock guys that are anti-slide release. They will go to great extents to point out it is actually a slide stop and not a slide release. The Glock arrived with a little stub of a lever that is probably the weakest link in the gun. To keep from breaking them on a regular basis, they recommended not using it to release the slide, and the overhand power stroke became the way to do things.

Of course releasing the slide with the slide release works much better on other guns such as the Beretta 92, the SIG P-Series, and of course the 1911.

 

[rcmodel]

IMO, the act of shooting a pistol has to be a far more violent reaction than simply dropping the slide with a slide release with no round being chambered.

No, it actually isn't more violent.

When firing the gun, friction of the rounds pressing up on the bottom of the slide, as well as friction produced as each round is stripped out of the mag and is forced up the feed ramp slow the slide considerably before it slams shut.

It Never slams shut empty without being slowed down when shooting, because the slide is locked open when the mag runs dry.

Dropping the slide on an empty gun probably produces 50-100% more metal to metal impact then shooting does.

rc

 

[RustyShackelford]

Glock & roll....

I used to be in the "I use the slide release." camp but after buying and shooting a Glock 21 .45acp gen 04, I got into the habit of racking the slide/loading by hand.
It's fast & easy. If wounded or injured you can use the semi auto pistol's controls too(like shooting one-handed). It's not a waste or un-needed to learn both ways.

I'd add that the "slide release" on the Glock 21 gen 04 is less than ideal.
Like the take-down lever(which is too small & complex IMO), the factory Glock part could be re-designed.
I plan to replace the Glock 21's take-down part, the slide-release & the magazine release.
I'm going to buy a Ti take-down lever from Glockworx. They market a slightly larger part but it won't cause problems with holsters or drawing/re-holstering.
I also like the TangoDown Larry Vickers Glock parts. The M&P type slide release & the re-designed magazine release. Vickers is a retired US Army soldier & spec ops/tier one level operator. He knows what a Glock needs to run properly.
I'm left handed so the new parts may help even with gloves.

RS
www.glockstore.com www.glockworx.com www.tangodown.com www.brownells.com

 

[Jim K]

The question is not whether the slide chambering a round is easier on the gun than letting the slide run forward on an empty chamber. The question is whether the latter will cause any significant damage the gun, and if so, how often it will take to do damage. Some folks claim that releasing the slide on an empty chamber even once will wipe out all life on earth. Others say that it will do no harm unless it is done many thousands of times, if then.

I know the former group is wrong, as we are all still here. Having released slides on hundreds of pistols, some many, many times, I am inclined to think that if there is damage, it is minimal. (I will say that I have seen frame cracks in light weight guns; one was in a gun owned from new by a "wipe out" gentleman, who swore that he never released the slide on an empty chamber.)

Jim

 

[RustyShackelford]

"Wipe-out"....

What does wipe-out mean?

 

[9mmepiphany]

Why is even called a slide release?

It isn't..refer to #46 below

I'm not sure where this urban legend comes from...likely the same place that causes folks to refer to a Detachable Magazine as a Clip.

If the slide release was never meant to release the slide, then why is it even put on the pistol?

It's function, as it's name implies, is to STOP the slide's movement...specifically when the magazine is empty and the magazine follower forces the slide stop upward

 

[1911Tuner]

On a 1911...

It's a slide stop...that keeps the slide from flying off the front of the frame when it runs forward.

It's a slide lock...to hold the slide open when the last round is fired.

It's a slide release...to reload the chamber after inserting a charged magazine.

It's a cam...to lift the barrel into the slide as it returns to battery.

It's an anchor for the link...to pull the barrel out of the slide during the recoil phase.

Remove the barrel and slip the slidestop crosspin through the link. Swing the link and crosspin into the in-battery position with the pin bearing against the lower lug feet.

Look closely at how small that contact patch is. That is ultimately what brings it all to a halt.

I've seen those feet crack. I've seen them shear completely off.

With more modern linkless designs...including the Browning High Power...the lower lug is more robust, and able to withstand impact much better than that on the 1911...but even with those, I still don't let the slide run forward at full speed unless it's chambering a round.

Is this just a case of 1911 folks treating their 1911s like jewelry?

Why abuse the machinery just because we can? It may stand it repeatedly...until one day, it doesn't. Remember our friend, Sgt. Murphy? The guy whose law states that if it can go wrong it will...and usually at the worst possible moment?

Murphy crashes my parties often enough without handing him a written invitation.

But, hey! It's your gun. Beat on it if you want.

 

[moxie]

When did Murphy get promoted?

In my outfit he's a slicksleeve dirtball on his way to mufti on civvy street.

 

[mgmorden]

I don't see the harm in releasing the slide with it, but in general I don't do it.

Simple reasoning: it behooves you to adopt habits that will work in the greatest number of situations. Some guns have very, very tight slide stops that don't just easily drop the slide you may take 3-4 seconds trying to position your thumb so it doesn't slip and applying sufficient force to get the slide to drop. The CZ-52's slide locks back but it doesn't even have a lever to release the slide - there may be other examples of guns like this.

As such - slingshotting works on every design that locks the slide back. Releasing via slide-stop works on some subset of those. Condition yourself to always slingshot and you're better off.

 

[JTQ]

As such - slingshotting works on every design that locks the slide back. Releasing via slide-stop works on some subset of those. Condition yourself to always slingshot and you're better off.

Of course you could have a house-full of S&W TDA autos, Ruger P-Series guns, and Beretta 92's, and as every Glock and SIG guy will tell you, those safety/decockers will get in the way and you'll end up putting the gun on safe if you slingshot the slide. Hey, you'll get yourself killed if you do that.

 

[xm21]

What 1911 Tuner sez about 1911's on an empty chamber,as for which method(slingshot or using the slide release)to make the slide go forward after inserting a magazine with cartridges in it choose one and use it until it becomes as thoughtless as breathing.

 

[ATLDave]

My view, which I don't claim is inherently more valuable than any other person's, is as follows:

1. Releasing the slide full speed when not chambering a round does cause some stress in excess of that experienced when the slide is chambering a round. While this will not always cause problems, there seems little benefit to it, so why not control the slide's movement when closing on an empty chamber?

2. The observations in #1 apply whether the slide is sent forward with full force via the slide release/lock lever or by way of a slingshot. It makes no difference. The issue isn't the slide release. In fact, to close a locked-back slide on an empty chamber, I will retract the slide, depress the lever, then control the slide until it is closed.

3. There is no question whatsoever that closing the slide on a round (after a slide-lock reload, for instance) is faster if you can do it via the lever, rather than grabbing the slide. None. I hear arguments that a slingshot method is better in one way or another, but it is an empirical, measurable, provable fact that the slingshot (regardless of whether you use a hand-over or thumb-pinch grip on the slide) is slower. Here's a video of Bob Vogel reloading from slide lock illustrating how fast a reload can be accomplished using the lever. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oCTn12qvO9o

 

[Walt Sherrill]

It's a slide stop or a slide release -- depending on the gun and how it was designed --and how inflexible you might be in thinking about these things.

Some slide stop mechanisms don't have a tab on the lever that lets you press down to release the slide. You must move the slide to release it. The absence of a lever means the mechanism keeps the slide on the from when the slide goes forward.

Some have extra large tabs on the lever, with the lever positioned for quick and easy access by the strong-hand thumb. They not only keep the slide on the frame when the slide closes, but lets you set the slide in motion, after it has locked back.

Some guns have ambidextrous slide releases or locks -- arguably unnecessary if you aren't really supposed to use them to release the slide. And then there are EXTENDED SLIDE RELEASES available for many guns. I would argue that they are called Extended Slide Releases because there's no need for an EXTENDED SLIDE STOP. While its generally a single part, the STOP and the lever that releases the slide can perform two different functions, if it's made right -- but most folks seem to think that piece of material has only ONE proper function.

An acquaintance who has been a long-term trainer/instructor with Special Oops troops at Ft. Bragg -- a guy named Larry Brown -- told me some time ago that the U.S. military had changed its handgun training to focus on using the slide RELEASE to let the slide go forward on pistols. Why? Because under combat conditions, using the hand-over or sling-shot method, guys under stress, wearing gloves, etc., weren't releasing the slide cleanly, and there were a lot of failures to go into battery. That meant a clearance process, lost time, and a lost round. The change seems to have worked. Whether you call that little device a STOP or a RELEASE, it can clearly be used in more than one way with some guns.

In the world of shooting sports and combat competitions, using the slide release/slide stop lets guys more easily keep the gun up in front of the eyes and on target than some of the other techniques... Then, too, not everybody uses the strong-hand thumb to release the slide. Some folks use several fingers of the weak hand as the last step in the magazine insertion process to release the slide.

It's not a "there's only one way to do it" process, and it's silly to say that WHAT something is CALLED dictates how it MUST OR SHOULD BE USED.

 

[Nom de Forum]

Yeah, it's a "slide release" on every gun. That's the accepted terminology. I generally use the "slide release" only to lock the slide back. How's that?

In addition to what has pointed out about the 1911, is not called a slide release on a Glock.

 

[Nom de Forum]

It's not a "there's only one way to do it" process, and it's silly to say that WHAT something is CALLED dictates how it MUST OR SHOULD BE USED.

I agree, that's why I use the slide STOP/LOCK/Whatever to release the slide to sometimes put the pistol into battery.

 

[Zaydok Allen]

I used to depress the slide stop quite a bit when chambering a round on reload, but logic tells us that you are forcing a lot of friction on that little foot that holds the slide back when you do that.

So since sling shotting is easy and fast, I mostly do that on the range. However, under duress, I would likely depress the slide stop.

As far as dropping the slide on an empty chamber goes, I'm staying out of it as recent threads have gone around and around and settled nothing. I will say, there simply isn't a good reason to do it, but if it's your gun, then do what you want. Just don't do it to mine.

What we really need is someone with one of those super high speed cameras to film, and actually measure the cycle speed difference when chambering a round, vs. dropping the slide on an empty chamber to establish how much of a difference there actually is. That individual needs money to burn as you may intentionally be doing damage to a brand new gun, and would really need to buy two brand new pistols to keep the test fair.

Then we need a competent smith to inspect the gun every xxx number of slide drops and compare wear and tear on both guns.

Of course unless every gun out there is tested, no relevant results would be gathered anyway as guns from different makers would undoubtedly perform differently. I doubt these types of tests would ever be performed by anyone but a manufacturer. So I think the best bet is to contact the manufacturer of the specific gun you are wondering about, and ask. Springfield Armory specifically says in their manual not to drop a slide on their empty 1911's.

So here we are........ getting nowhere fast....... again.

 

[1911Tuner]

I used to depress the slide stop quite a bit when chambering a round on reload, but logic tells us that you are forcing a lot of friction on that little foot that holds the slide back when you do that.

*shrug*

I've got a pair of early 1991A1 Colts here that have close to 400,000 rounds through them collectively...about evenly split. I've used the slidestop to release the slide on about every other magazine that's been locked into'em...and I haven't seen any indication that anything has been damaged.

 

[JTQ]

460Kodiak wrote,
I used to depress the slide stop quite a bit when chambering a round on reload, but logic tells us that you are forcing a lot of friction on that little foot that holds the slide back when you do that.

I suppose it depends.

If I remember correctly you've been through a couple of poly guns in .45Auto.

On the FN(P/N/S, or whatever the letter of the month was when you owned it) 45, with the little stamped slide stop like Glock uses, sure it is probably a good idea to not use it to release the slide since the part is probably so cheap it will break in short order under repeated use.

On the other hand, that big, giant lever on the HK45 is specifically designed for you to use it to release the slide. That lever could probably be used constantly for the rest of your life and never show any signs of wear.

 

[Zaydok Allen]

1911Tuner and JTQ,

I think you guys are correct and I agree, there are certainly models that it isn't and would never be a problem on. And yes JTQ, you are correct about my experience. On my former FNP45, and also on my SA XDs, the slide stops are small, and seem rather cheaply made. However, I'm certainly no engineer or smith, and those parts may last forever, and I've never had one break myself. It makes sense for me that since they are smaller, it is easier to sling shot in general.

However, on my HK45, and my S&W 1911 E series, the slide stops are much larger and beefier to be sure. I worry much less about the friction on the foot if releasing the slide by means of the slide stop.

Slinging is just a habit I've gotten into as a result of this thought process, that I apply to all semi-autos just out of habit. It seems like a simple and easy way to limit the chance for wear on a part. I didn't mean to imply that I thought chambering a round by releasing the slide stop was a bad thing or that it shouldn't be done at all. I see that's how it came off though, and perhaps my perception of wear on a metal part is over estimated.

I just view it the same as dropping the slide on an empty chamber. There really isn't a need to do it, if you are just target shooting that is. Now if you are practicing defensive shooting, or competing where speed is essential, I totally get it. It is faster than sling shotting for sure.