Using the beads

[elktrout]

Thanks to all for your replies on my other posts. I have a question about the beads on shotguns. I have only ever had shotguns with a metal front bead. My current (and only) shotgun is a Browning A500 with only a metal front bead. I have had it for 32 years.

I am getting very close on purchasing an O/U for shooting clays and maybe taking on an occasional bird hunt. It would have a mid-bead, which I never had before.

What is the proper alignment of the front and mid-beads?

1. Front stacked on top of the mid bead to create the figure "8"?
2. Or, mid bead aligned into the front bead, creating one bead?

Does the POI vary between the two? How much?

Sorry for all the questions, but spending around $2000 or more on shotgun is a different experience for me and one I want to get right the first time. Thanks.

 

[cdb1]

Can’t help you. I consider a mid bead superfluous and remove them. If I’m aware of the bead then I’m aiming which causes me to miss, if we are talking about objects or animals that are flying through the air.

 

[ColtPythonElite]

My trap gun has a mid bead. I see a figure 8 when I shoulder the gun....Kinda....There is a little space between them.

 

[WestKentucky]

I always take the mid-beads off. Not that they bother my shooting, but they scratch my truck when I lean the gun up to unlock the door. I don’t use a bead at all though, I shoot on instinct and I do fairly well. Last round of trap I hit 96. That was about 4 years and 3 guns ago.

 

[cfullgraf]

When shooting skeet, when I mount the gun, I line up the beads. Then I don't look at them again through the shot.

 

[entropy]

The answer depends on several factors. Is it a flat 'field' rib? If so, then the answer for Trap is you want to see a figure '8'; this ensures your POI is better than 50/50. For Skeet you might line them up as one bead; FWIW, I am no expert at skeet.
The bead or beads are there on a shotgun for one thing, and one thing only; to ensure you have your rear sight (your eye) at the correct elevation. Once you have done that, you should not see or notice the bead again until lining up the next shot. This is why fitment is so important for shotgunning, except American trap, where you have all the time in the world to align your sights.(eye and bead)
Your best bet is a Browning CX; It is designed to usable for all 3 major clays games. The original CX is a Limited Availablity gun now, but they also can be found used, sometimes under the $2000 mark you mention. There are CXT (Trap) and CXS (Skeet) versions also that favor those disciplines, but aren't strictly for each game.

 

[kudu]

I look at mid beads a bit differently. I don't have to have them, for that matter I don't really need an end bead, shot many a straight round without them not even realizing they had fallen off, but I kinda like them on my guns. Every bodies face is shaped a bit differently and on almost all shotguns when I pick them up I will see at least a figure 8 of stacked beads or some space between the beads, mostly I see a bit of rib between the beads. Even with my cheek pushed tightly into the stock. You want to be comfortable on the stock, push into it too much and you will end a round with a bruised cheek and a flinch.

Without putting the money into a custom stock I guess I compensate for most of my guns shooting high and I float the birds. This has saved me many times in windy conditions when the bird drops suddenly or does a zig-zag, I am able to see it happen and not lose it behind the barrels. I still shoot the occasional 100 straight in skeet and have a mid 90's average in trap, but since I don't compet anymore I don't really care. Mid beads are more for making sure the gun is square with the shooter's eye, that they aren't a bit left or right.

If you can afford to have a gun stock fit to you, by all means get it done, the next best thing is and adjustable stock and lot's of shells and learning.

 

[PapaG]

I like mid beads but use them only for initial alignment before calling for the bird. I normally have them in a snowman configuration,with the mid a little into the front. Then I forget them, focus about ten yards ahead of the trap and call.

 

[George P]

If the gun truly fits you, the beads are useless. The only time they seem to come into play is for those folks shooting a premounted gun as a way to check their mount. So, if the gun really fits, the mount will be perfect and thus the beads become superfluous. Your eyes should only focus on your target, whether feathered or clay.

 

[Milkmaster]

Figure 8 for my trap gun. Then focus on the target after the beads are aligned. Beretta 686 is my gun. I like the mid bead arrangement.

 

[Sappyg2.0]

Sorry for all the questions, but spending around $2000 or more on shotgun is a different experience for me and one I want to get right the first time. Thanks.

The questions are nothing to be sorry for. Problem is, there may not be a good answer.

Beads are a good way to see if an off the shelf gun fits you in a store. They also help you sqaure the gun. If I mount a gun and the beads dont line up, the gun doesn't fit. However, if the gun fits they become small things on the rib and are easily ignored. If they fall off you won't care.

My usual SC/ skeet semi gun has no beads so I cant speak about sight picture. Skeet gun has a slight figure 8. I think. Trap gun definately has a figure 8 picture. All 3 guns 'square up' the same. They fit very well.

To me, when I use the phrase 'square up' I'm referring to whether the beads are offset sid to side when mounted. If there is an offset in either direction the gun doesn't fit. Best to pass it by.

 

[elktrout]

Thanks for all your replies.

Entropy, I handled a CX last weekend at a local store and liked it very much. I do not understand why Browning has made it a limited production item. I think it is great. It is coming down to either the CX or the CXT. I will keep checking them out.

 

[I6turbo]

If I'm shooting a shotgun and find that I need a bead (any bead), it tells me that the gun doesn't fit me.

 

[darkcloud]

I use the bead(s) to make sure the gun fits. Meaning does it mount correctly with alignment with my eye down the barrel/rib whether slow and deliberate as if shooting trap or quickly as when shooting at a rising covey of partridge.. I don't use the beads otherwise.

 

[expat_alaska]

When I got started in skeet in 1968 EVERYONE had a center bead, so I followed suit on an 870.

After a bit with the center bead on a VR barrel, it did not matter and I basically ignored it. It was cool in the day to have one. The muzzle was the most important part of the sight picture and will always be.

If the gun fits you and you can see the entire top of the barrel (VR or not) with a good cheek weld you will not have to blot out the bird (live or clay) and if you keep the gun moving with a proper lead it is a dead bird.

I came home on leave from the USAF in 1972 and my Dad invited me to a pheasant hunt in David City NE the next day. He gave me his Win Model 12 16 gauge full choke to use. It had an aftermarket Bishop birdseye maple stock that was very high at the heel.

Not bragging, but I killed the only two pheasants that day, one at 20 yards and another at 60+ paced yards. Being able to see the entire top of the barrel was the key. Forget about center beads, watch the muzzle and move the gun.

Just my $.02 worth.

Jim

 

[Random 8]

The mid-bead comes in very handy for trap shooting. As you progress in the sport, you'll notice between different days/wind, throwers, ranges... we'll lump these all into "venue" going forward, your targets tend to rise more or less. This is also very applicable to any rising targets in SC and falling or rising targets in skeet. A wider figure 8, or separation between your beads will raise your pattern. Closer to line-up on the beads will lower your pattern. Not that you should be concentrating on the beads while tracking a target. They aren't rifle sights, you should be looking through them, focusing the clay, the opposite of aiming an iron sighted rifle, but it gives you a good starting point when you mount the gun. Depending on your style, how fast you're firing on your targets in their arc, and the venue at any given moment, you may want to raise or lower your pattern a bit to cover the center of your break zone. Your individual sweet spot per venue will take time and experience to develop. For a typical trap barrel and my style on trap or rising targets, I like a "light" figure 8 and a hold under the bird as a starting point. With a headwind or hard risers I'll increase the spread on beads, with a tailwind I'll light figure 8 and nearly cover the birds. The mid bead will also help you to notice if you're jumping the lead on crossing shots (pulling your cheek off the stock and using eye position rather than a smooth swing with the barrel to get a "lead" on your rights and lefts) and start off with a centered cheek hold on the stock.

 

[elktrout]

Random 8, you just made a lot of sense to me. I do not typically tighten my cheek into the stock, instead keeping my head up somewhat. The high rib on my A500, along with a high head position, truly makes my patterns higher, which allows me to float the target and hit more consistently. My son's Winchester Model 1300 pump gun, conversely, has a flat POI, and I struggle to hit any clays with it. I have just about totally convinced myself to buy a Browning 725 High Rib sporting, for it fits me almost exactly the same as my A500 semi. Then again, the Citori CX has almost the same fit for me. But, that 725 just feels so good, I may just have to scrape together the exact dollars to buy it. I found that when I mounted it, I could do just what you mentioned: make the figure 8 tight or open. Thanks for your great explanation. What do you prefer, 32 or 30 inch barrels. I was surprised how much better the 32 inch barrels seemed when I mounted the 725 high rib. And, I am only 5'-10" tall.

 

[tactikel]

The midbead is for consistency only. On my Supperposed trap gun if they are an 8 my hold is good. For my Dad he wanted both lined up. It allows whatever hold you like to be replicated with consistency.

 

[Random 8]

I prefer the longer barrel, but trap shooting is the game I play most. When I do shoot sporting clays or skeet, it is usually as practice for hunting, so I use my field gun. I think the guys that shoot sporting clays a lot prefer somewhat shorter barrels, perhaps someone else can answer to this. BTW, I've always used inexpensive guns and done very well with them so long as the fit is there. My trap gun used to be a field Rem 1100 with a modified "slug" gun buttstock. Bought the monte carlo buttstock used and sanded away some wood as needed for fit. A local smith raised my pattern a couple of notches with a tweak of the barrel. My current trap gun is a CZ612 pump with a 32" barrel. It is crudely finished, but fit, balance and pattern are perfect. It's a clay grinder, I've earned top gun 2 years running now at my club.

 

[George P]

Serious sporting clays shooters shoot 32 to 34 " barrels and seem to prefer guns weighing anywhere from 8.25 to 9 pounds