V-day is coming

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I can't decide who suffered more in the war; the Russians or the Chinese. The Chinese were already embroiled in a civil war, if I recall correctly, when the Japanese launched their brutal invasion in 1931.

The Russians, of course, were caught between Hitler and Stalin. I don't know which one of those men killed more Russian people, but between the two of them the Soviet Union lost (I think) 40,000,000 people by 1945.
 
There's no real contest. China was hit hard, but couldn't put up much of a fight. The battles on the Russian front were much larger and more intense. They remain the biggest and bloodiest in human history. The Chinese lost several million, but the Russians lost well over 20, possibly 30 or more million. The Chinese also had a larger population to begin with, and of course continued to grow fast after the war. Russia was hit so hard, and lost such a percentage of young men, that it never really recovered. Even to this day the population is in decline and suffers from what almost seems like a multi-generational case of PTSD.
 
I don't think it's exactly a "no real contest" evaluation. China lost some 20 million during WW2 alone and Russia maybe 5 million more than that. Also, consider that China was still suffering under western imperialism (colonies) and was waging a civil war before Japan invaded. The civil war continued after Japan surrendered. China also suffered an exuberate amount of human rights atrocities, which is rarely mentioned in text books (being overshadowed by the Holocaust). Japan had also setup concentration camps, mass executions and forced slave labor in military brothels. (Another reason why China suffered more civilian loses than military) This is similar to asking who lost more, the Jews or the Russians?
 
China lost some 20 million during WW2 alone
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The only way you can get to that high a figure is to include high estimates of secondary (famine, disease) deaths from the communist vs. nationalist civil war. As you note, that conflict predated WWII and continued after it. Adding those deaths to total WWII deaths would be like adding the Ukrainian famine deaths to the Soviet total. I'm not trying to downplay what China went through, but trying to compare any conflict to the eastern front of WWII is difficult. The scale and intensity is so far beyond anything in our frame of reference it's hard to imagine. The western front during the peak of the first world war is probably the closest, but in that case far fewer civilans were killed. There has never been, and hopefully never will be, any human conflict on the same scale as the ostfront in WWII.

I also want to be clear, I'm not prepared to compare atrocities. I don't think one atrocity can be compared to another. I'm talking about warfare. It is possible to measure one battle against another. And on that scale, the ostfront was the worst by far and victory there came with the highest pricetag.
 
I have always felt... through all the intervening years... that our people were never "enemies." It's those pesky governments that get in the way :neener:
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PAShooter,

I couldn't agree more.

I travel to China once or twice a year. And even though the people there are indoctrinated with communism, they are pretty much like most people here who just work hard, love their families and want to live a comfortable life.

Powermongering and moneygrubbing people are the ones who cause ALL wars.
 
hell yes

let us never forget what our grandfathers great uncles and what everyone else did too.
I've known a some vets from different wars, to look at those posters is moving.
almost brought tears to my eyes, both my grandfathers are dead not by war.
my great grandfather on my fathers side was in the navy in WWII.
uh as I remember China was pretty much feudal at that time "A" civil war is not accurate.
they were clan to clan for while, or at least that is what they taught in history when I was a kid.
oh on a bit less emotional note the smiling Russian poster, is that a vodka face or what?


http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p316/sarmata/Poster_russian.jpg
 
The only way you can get to that high a figure is to include high estimates of secondary (famine, disease) deaths from the communist vs. nationalist civil war.
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These should be western estimates, since China recorded 35 million casualties. The worst of the famine shouldn't be from the civil war (which started 4 years prior). The worst of it was caused by 14 years of the Sino-Japanese war. Realize that the Sino-Japanese war started 10 years prior to the European front and was the last front to be settled. The Japanese took on a kill and raze strategy, the worst being represented in the Massacre of Nanjing.
 
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