VA State Trooper knew nothing about 1911s...

[rellascout]

I was pulled over today by a VA state trooper. I notified the officer that I had a CHP and that I was armed. He asked me where the weapon was. I told him on my hip secured in a holster.

He asked to me to remove the gun and hand it to him. I removed it from the holster and told him it is a 1911 and it is cocked and locked. He looked at me like I was insane and asked me why it was cocked. I told him it was a 1911 and I was carrying it as it was designed. Clearly he was not comfortable with this and I asked him did he want me to clear the weapon. He said yes. I thumbed the safety down. dropped the mag and ejected the round from the chamber. I then left the action open showed him that is was clear and handed it too him.

He took it to his car. Did his thing and wrote me a ticket. From his car he motioned for me to come to his vehicle. I complied. I signed my ticket and asked for my 1911. This is where it got interesting. He says to me "I don't mean to give you a lecture on gun safety but carrying a gun cocked like you are is dangerous. It is not safe and you are asking for a negligent discharge. I explain to him that the 1911 is safer cocked and locked than the Sig P229 in 357 Sig he carries. I demonstrated to him that the 1911 cannot be fired without 3 deliberate acts.

Since the gun was clear and was not loaded I attempted to educate the ignorant trooper. I locked the safety and pulled the trigger amazingly enough it did not drop the hammer. Then I dropped the safety and pulled the trigger without engaging the grip safety. Again surprisingly the hammer did not drop. I then engaged the grip safety and the hammer fell.

He looked at me and said... your gun carry it the way you want.

All I have to say is that this trooper knew nothing about 1911s. He knew nothing about carrying cocked and locked but felt the need to impart his ignorance on to me. I told him that yes to carry a Sig P229 cocked would be dangerous but a 1911 it is perfectly safe.

So long story short why was this VA State police so stupid when it comes to guns. I cannot believe I was lectured by a 20 something who thought that a badge gave him the right to give me firearm advice. Do they not teach Troopers about guns beyond the ones that they carry? This trooper had no clue. If he did not have a badge I would have told him off.

 

[mljdeckard]

Most cops and soldiers know ONLY about the service weapons they carry. The police force and the military are not places to learn a lot about such things.

I would not have hesitated to tell him that he needs to learn about a gun before he lectures about it.

 

[rellascout]

I basically did without being rude. If he was not waring a badge I would have been much more stern in my demonstration.

It really pisses me off that someone who knows nothing about pistols still felt the need to tell me how to carry because he wears a badge,

 

[HammerheadSSN663]

I wouldn't have said anything but, "thank you." and walked away.

 

[Floppy_D]

why are the VA State police so stupid when it comes to guns.

I've met knowledgable ones, that's a generalization. Continue.

I cannot believe I was lectured by a 20 something who thought that a badge gave him the right to give me firearm advice.

He sought a career early and that diminishes the value of it?

Do they not teach Troopers about guns beyond the ones that they carry?

He's probably got a lot to worry about, the least of which is lawful firearms owners. You said he was young. They don't miracle quantities of knowledge into a LEOs head, they learn like you and me. Really, what percentage of his work load includes informal conversations with citizens about lawful firearms? Good on you for explaining it to him, he'll probably see this as a reason to expand his own knowledge of firearms, for having felt uninformed.

 

[rellascout]

Floppy d you are wrong. As I exited his cruiser he was shaking his head implying I was the ignorant one.

Thanks for the apologist view.

 

[cyclopsshooter]

im with Floppy D= rellascout, quit being a hot head... it is rants like this that help give gun owners a bad name

 

[rellascout]

No its not. I was perfectly polite to the ignorant officer. My issue is how can someone who knows nothing about the 1911 platform lecture me on its safety.

 

[cyclopsshooter]

It's just a gun, it does not define you or the trooper as human beings. Don't make a bigger deal out of it than it needs to be. It is just a tool.

 

[Onward Allusion]

rellascout VA State Trooper knew nothing about 1911s...
I was pulled over today by a VA state trooper. I notified the officer that I had a CHP and that I was armed. He asked me where the weapon was. I told him on my hip secured in a holster.

LEO's aren't required to be firearm enthusiasts. One officer I knew never picked up a firearm until he joined the force. Even then, he only shot to qualify and his duty weapon was his only gun.

Also, gotta keep in mind that 1911's aren't standard duty weapons anymore. I bet some of the younger officers have never seen or much less shot a 1911.

 

[rellascout]

I agree with you 100%. If he had never seen one he should not have told me how to carry one.

He should have kept his mouth shut. Written me a ticket and gone about his day.

 

[rellascout]

It's just a gun, it does not define you or the trooper as human beings. Don't make a bigger deal out of it than it needs to be. It is just a tool.

My issue is that this ignorant trooper felt that his badge gave him the right to tell me about something he knew nothing about.

 

[GRIZ22]

Do they not teach Troopers about guns beyond the ones that they carry?

Most LE agencies teach the guns that are issued and that's it. Not a slight to VA.

The agency i worked for required a "making weapons safe class" annually. Did not get into specific models but action types as SA auto, DA auto, DA revolver, etc.

 

[m2steven]

Putting on a badge and gun does not make someone an *******. They were already an ******* before they took the job.

 

[rellascout]

Do they not teach Troopers about guns beyond the ones that they carry?

Most LE agencies teach the guns that are issued and that's it. Not a slight to VA.

The agency i worked for required a "making weapons safe class" annually. Did not get into specific models but action types as SA auto, DA auto, DA revolver, etc.

Right so my point is if you knew nothing about 1911s would you be offering advice on how to carry one?

 

[cyclopsshooter]

from his perspective a loaded chamber is more dangerous than an empty one- maybe he was an a$$ about it but he is not necessarily wrong

 

[rellascout]

Wrong! He said that carrying a "gun" with the hammer back is dangerous to me and to others.

After explaining the safety aspects of the 1911 to him he said as he shook his head "your gun you carry it whatever way you want."

I bet his Sig had one in the pipe. Its okay for officers to have one in the pipe at the ready but for us regular folks its dangerous? I know when I carry my P226/P225/P228/P220 that is the way I carry it because I do not want to throw it at an attacker.

 

[Dimis]

a good portion of military and police have no further experience with ANY firearm other than the one they have trained with
its a sad world we live in when one of the tools you HAVE to use to keep yourself safe you know very little about
delaware state police officers dont have to qualify but once a year and thats about the ONLY time they familiarize themselves with there issued sidearm most of them dont even clean them
unless they are a SWAT member (police) or a combat MOS (military) they generaly dont care about firearms
it shocked me when my criminology teacher told me he hates guns (he was DC metro for 20+ years) and my criminal justice teacher didnt buy her first firearm till after she retired from new castle county police department
its like any other job these days people are just there for a paycheck not because they are enthused with the job

 

[rellascout]

Dimis I understand and feel your frustration. I guess where the confusion comes in is if that is the case then why offer inaccurate and false advice :banghead:?

 

[Erik M]

Ive experienced the same in my travels. I was on my way home from work and had had to stop at a police checkpoint set up by the hand full of officers of the local 'one horse town' I used to drive through. I handed the officer my drivers license and my concealed weapons license.

The officers eyes got big and he asked "you have a gun? where is it?" while at the same time unsnapping his holstered glock, clearing leather and holding it in a ready position towards my car door. I told him my glovebox (where you can carry in KY without a permit). I was instructed to give him my weapon holding it by the barrel with the thumb and forefinger of my off-hand. Then his supervisor basiclly asked me what I was thinking trying to bring a gun through a city police roadblock. I was sent on my way shortly after. I will not lie to you - Even though I had done nothing wrong and was perfectly legal, I was young, intimidated, and thought I was going to be shot because officer Fife forgot his prozac.

 

[BigO01]

rellascout learn to ignore the problem of ignorant Cops when it comes to guns , I have dealt with it for over 25 years and have seen worse than you .

Prior to turning 21 I had read the rquirements to buy a handgun in my state MO in a Popular Firearms magazine "Probably Guns & Ammo" but to make sure I asked a local cop who use to date my sister and he tells me he'll bring me the requirements in a few days . When I see him in a few days he gives me this sheet of paper describing a ton of things I need to do including letters of Character from Professionals such as business owners and then apply for the local Police Chiefs Permission and then go get my permit .

In other words what he told me was Total BS as at the time all I needed to do was apply for the purchase permit and wait about 5 days for a background check and then if cleared I would get a letter and then go pick up my permit and the gun afterwards .

Years earlier " early 1970's" the same guy told me how cops wouldn't use Semiautos as duty weapons because in a firefight you would get excited and pull the trigger so fast that you would cause the gun to jam , LOL , said he learned that in the Marine Corps in Nam and the 1911 was a POS .

The worst part is the ignorant population who actually buy into the BS that Cops or Soldiers are some how automatically experts at such subjects .

You're right of course he should have let you go without the lecture but of course his Badge makes him a GOD in his own mind and he can do whatever he damn well pleases .

Take comfort in the thought that he probably can't hit the broad side of a barn with his Sig .

 

[sigsteve]

Why were you pulled over in the first place?

 

[Snowdog]

Back when I used to carry a G19, the AWB had not yet expired (this was when 15-round G19 magazines were being sold for $50+ by some).

At a license check, a deputy "secured" my pistol. While having deputy #2 call in my license info, deputy #1 (who was in possession of my G19 and inspecting its magazine that he removed) asked me if I was allowed to have magazines with a capacity over 10 rounds.

I did all I could to bite my tongue and not ask him why he was asking me this question. Before I could begin explaining to him what preban meant, deputy #2 set him straight (in an exasperated manner, I might add, which was rather uncomfortable).

In general, there are going to be some LEOs who are borderline gun-ignorant and of course quite a few who aren't. I suppose there's a learning curve for those new to the job. Hopefully the young Trooper who stopped you will have a decent idea of what's what in a few more years, due in part to incremental education such as what you offered.

 

[mete]

Don't assume that anyone is knowledgable about guns !! In an IPSC match I had an RO tell me to drop the hammer - on my hammerless P7 !!

 

[DRYHUMOR]

If he hadn't been "working" at the time, and you two were at the range or coffee shop you could have educated him. As it was, you may have at least planted a seed in his mind that he may follow up on and have an "ah ha" moment.

I recall a story my aunt conveyed to me years ago (she's in her mid 80's). There was a doctor who had a very nice double shotgun, as she was cleaning up, he walked in from hunting. She asked if he wanted her to clean the gun, yes he said. She broke it down by removing the forearm, he was certain she had broken it until she showed him how it worked. He had had the shotgun for years and had no idea.