Value of Model 10 with cracked frame

[il.bill]

Can anyone give me a ballpark figure on the value of a police trade-in 4" heavy barrel square butt S&W Model 10 from 1982 complete, but with a cracked frame?

The first time I got to take it out to shoot it, after just a little over 50 rounds of Remington 158 grain LRN and 130 grain UMC (no +P) ammunition the revolver locked up with two unfired cartidges in it. My local gunsmith was able to get the cylinder open, but the frame and forcing cone are split. He told me it would have had to have been already cracked when I bought it from an online retailer - 52 rounds of factory ammo should not have hurt it.

I have received no response from their customer service department. After waiting more than ten days for some kind of answer, I e-mailed them again, but now I realize I might just be up a creek on my own without a paddle.

I paid a hair over $290 delivered with insurance and credit card upcharges, and just want to get some idea what the value of the revolver might be if I have to sell it for parts in hopes of getting any return on my investment.

Thank you for any responses.

 

[drsfmd]

Bad frame and barrel? Not worth much.

Your grips and all the internal parts *might* be worth $50, tops.

 

[rcmodel]

I don't know about that.

The cylinder & crane alone will bring $50 on EvilBay I betcha.
Add $25 for the grips, $15 or so for the hammer, another $15 or so for the trigger, and another $50 for the rest of the parts.

Pretty soon, you got $150 at least.

rc

 

[Fremmer]

It's a wall-hanger.
You can try and part it out, but I suspect it'll be more trouble than revenue.

 

[RetiredUSNChief]

As it stands, rcmodel has it right.

The only value left in the gun now is the spare parts value for the undamaged components.

Sorry to hear about your loss. I hope you get some satisfaction from customer service.

 

[rcmodel]

BTW: You can't legally sell the frame, but somebody on eBay will buy the cracked barrel too I betcha.

rc

 

[Old Fuff]

I agree with remodel. Those parts are worth money. I have seen advertisements for kits that have everything but the frame, selling for $90.00 up.

And there is a chance that someone has a barreled frame and is looking for the rest of the internals.

A $50.00 wall-hanger it is not.

Last but not least, the crack in the frame might be welded, and the barrel hole re-tapped. Install a new (used) barrel and you're good to go.

 

[Jaymo]

Who was the vendor who sold you this gun?
I don't want to badmouth anyone, but this is something potential buyers need to know about, before spending their money.
I'm sorry about your bad experience.
I'd be pissed.

I wonder if S&W would help you out if you sent it in to them?

 

[Jim K]

I seldom find myself disagreeing with Old Fuff, but I don't think welding the frame is a viable approach. It might work for a while, but I think that it might eventually crack again.

I wouldn't hold out too much hope of satisfaction from the seller, since it would be impossible to prove the damage was there when the gun was sold. Still, if the seller is reputable and wants to keep a customer, they might offer some refund.

Otherwise, parting out the gun might be the best deal.

Jim

 

[Jaymo]

If the seller screws you, you can always badmouth them the way some people badmouth Taurus online.
I'm a firm believer in praising companies who take care of their customers.
I'm also a firm believer in bashing companies who don't. Those companies don't deserve to be in business.

They sold you a lemon, and have a legal obligation to make you "whole" again.

 

[rcmodel]

I wonder if S&W would help you out if you sent it in to them?

It seems unlikely on a 1982 cop trade-in..

The lifetime warrenty didn't start until February 1, 1989.

Besides, if you bought a 1982 Ford Crown Vic cop car with 250,000 miles on it and the engine blew up while you were drag racing?
Well you see the point.

As for the vendor?
I would for sure contact them.
Very likely they don't do a detailed inspection of the frame and forcing cone every gun they buy & sell.

They would be the one to step up to the plate on this one.
Not S&W.

rc

 

[Jim K]

Many good retailers will refund the money on return of the goods, and not argue. But buying "on the net" is always a crapshoot. Sellers want a form of payment that is not a postal money order (because that would be using the mail to defraud), either never ship the item, ship a different item (bait and switch), or conceal damage in photos.

Then the seller either closes his e-mail account or never had one, and disappears. In theory, the buyer has legal recourse. But try finding a lawyer halfway across the country to take on a suit for a few hundred dollars (lawyers spend more than that in a week on handkerchiefs).

I know most internet buyers are happy, and have gotten good deals. But many have gotten scr.... well, let's just say they are less than satisfied and have no real recourse.

Jim

 

[Slamfire]

I seldom find myself disagreeing with Old Fuff, but I don't think welding the frame is a viable approach. It might work for a while, but I think that it might eventually crack again.

I would agree. A welded joint is not as strong as the original and then you are applying heat to an area taking any heat treatment away.

I am curious to where it cracked. How about some pictures?

 

[rcmodel]

I disagree to disagree.
A welded firearm frame can certainly be stronger then the orginal frame.
Witness Keiths modified flattop Colts, and Bill Laughridge's 1903 pocket hammerless 1911.

But the guy that welds the tail-pipes at Bubba's Muffler Shop isn't going to be that guy.

Those that can do it will cost you way more for the welding job then the gun was worth before it was broke.

rc

 

[Claude Clay]

...online retailer

having made many purchases and sales on line, feedback is vital
good or bad, just so it is in perspective --"just the facts, mam"

i've asked for specific pictures and often that they just say ok is enough.
some never get back in touch rather than send the requested picture.

your situation --was there evidence that you missed seeing or that was not shown; the forcing cone area?

good luck if you part it out

 

[Old Fuff]

The crack usually occures at 6:00 on the barrel between the barrel and cut-out for the yoke, and the metal is very thin at this point.

I have seen two frames that were cracked in this manner, and then welded. Both were .38 Specials and working fine after being re-barreled. At this particular place heat treatment didn't seem to be an issue.

It is my understanding that the gentleman who did the welding doesn't do tail pipes.

 

[il.bill]

Thank you all for your replies. The info you have shared will be very helpful, if for example they say something like: "We will give you $50 (or $100, etc.) credit off a different one after you send the old firearm back to us." Now I have some idea as to the value of parting out the Model 10 versus any potential credit minus the expense of shipping it back. If this turns out to be a 'caveat emptor' lesson, at least the dollar amount is not crippling (though it is significant to me).

I did not name the vendor because I wanted to give them a fair chance to work things out. I just do not really know what kind of time frame would be 'fair' in waiting for their response.

I had previously purchased a new Remington 1911 and a surplus M91/30 from them. I was reluctant to buy a police trade-in, but I was reassured by their statement: "As always ___________.com guarantees function on these used revolvers". The Model 10 was my very first revolver, and it looked good to me, but I really did not know what I was looking for, other than what I had read online about checking out a revolver. I pulled the cover, cleaned and lubed the parts, and spent a couple of months pulling the trigger with .38 spl. snap caps enjoying the feel of the Model 10's double action - that was pretty sweet for a newbie. When I finally got to shoot it, with the frame splitting open after firing 52 rounds of new ammo, I fell it assuredly had a pre-existing crack, but I missed it.

I have owned a small town garage since 1974, so I can relate to the analogies posted above. This would be long past S&W's responsibility, and I understand no vendor can check every used firearm for 100% reliability out the door, but if this was my business I would make a good faith attempt to work with the customer. Over ten days for a response just seems like a long time to me.

I will try to post some pictures later tonight. Thanks for your input. This forum has given me a place to lose some of my frustration. I feel a lot less alone with your help and responses.

Bill

 

[camsdaddy]

Try calling them.

 

[Mr.454]

As a welder I'll tell tell you that welds an be many times stronger than the original base metal depending on the chosen filler metal. For a gun you would need a gunsmith who is good at TIG welding. Folks do it all the time with competition 1911s.

 

[Guillermo]

I know it sucks to have your new toy break.

Model 10 frames do not break easily so I would imagine there was some sort of a defect that took a long time to rear its ugly head.

I would probably "part it out" instead of trying to make it a "rat rod".

With a little luck you can probably get $150 back.

 

[BSA1]

What this is discussion is about the difference between possible and practical.

It is possible to find a skilled enough TIG welder to repair the crack. The trick here is the skill and amount it will cost.

Then the frame will need to be recontour for appearances.

Then the whole gun will need to be reblued/refinished.

What maybe $400.00 in repairs + purchase price for all of this for a very common $200 gun?

It is a bit of a crap shoot buying old guns and that is where the venders warranty comes into play.

I just purchased a used Model 10-6. It has heavy holster wear on the finish but the action is very tight leading me to conclude it was not shot a lot. The downside is the b/c gap looks on the tight side and the cylinder closes hard. I have not got out my gauges yet to measure things but I suspect it it need some minor smithing which will still mean very servicable gun that will last many more years.

 

[rcmodel]

You left out one step.

If anyone welds it and gets complete penetration of the weld necessary for 100% strength??

Better figure in re-cutting the .542" x 36TPI barrel threads inside the frame, cause the welding is gonna destroy at least some of them.

Woser!
Thats an expensive thread tap you won't find at Home Depot!!

rc

 

[evan price]

I recently rebuilt a 10-6 that needed some lovin'. Someone had dunked the whole gun in the hot blue tank without doing anything more than taking off the grips. Then they had tried to file the sear surfaces...ugh. Then I broke the hammer nose.
Hammer, trigger, hand, cylinder stop, rebound block, screws and springs. Paid about $75 for all the parts. Not too much demand for cylinders and yokes. I would think you have $100 worth of parts there and that's about it. Considering it can't go mail order except to a FFL it's a bit of a pain to ship unless you strip it down.

 

[Guillermo]

it's a bit of a pain to ship unless you strip it down

The way I understand it, the frame is the "gun" legally speaking. It has to be shipped to an FFL.

Please note:
I am not a lawyer, do not play one on tv. But if I did my character's name would be "colt". My secretary would be buxom and have a "flashbang" holster. Of course I still wouldn't know anymore about the law