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Variation of an age old Question: Chosing a new CCW

Discussion in 'Handguns: Autoloaders' started by Allentown, Jun 24, 2013.

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  1. Allentown

    Allentown Member

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    Hi all,

    I moved to a new state and will be getting my CCW soon. (again). It has been a few years since i CCW because i travel all the time, never went any where on the weekends and let it lapse (i digress).

    When i CCW before my best two carry weapons were the Sig P239 (too heavy) traded for a Para-ordinance C6 LDA (a bit hard on the hand for shooting but was relatively accurate and reliable, but it was a bit on the heavy side for my tastes.. still wish i had kept it).

    Now i am trying to select a new weapon for CCW. My Sig P229 is too big for all but the coolest of months/worst travel situations and my Ruger CCR is too lightwt, too underpowered for all but the hottest of months/safest situations.

    I need something in between. I am specificallly looking for something 19oz and lighter, thinner than 1 inch (give or take), .40 caliber with a grip handle long enough to get 3 fingers on (or at least with stock magazines), in a gun with established quality and solid reliability.

    Here is my VERY short list: Kahr CW40 or M&P Shield.

    Have i left any off that meet my requirements?
     
  2. Allentown

    Allentown Member

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    My Very short list ended up missing a candidate i meant to include so its;

    XDS vs Kahr vs M&P Shield
     
  3. allaroundhunter

    allaroundhunter Member

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    The XDs is not offered in .40 S&W. Only 9mm and .45 ACP.
     
  4. JustinJ

    JustinJ Member

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    I had no idea they made a .40 for which only two fingers would fit. OUCH!

    Seriously though, for single stack subcompacts I would stick with 9mm as .40 is a lot of recoil for such a light weapon. Between the two you listed though i like the shield but i haven't had the chance to shoot more than a couple of mags through the 9mm version. I've just read too many bad experiences with Khar.
     
  5. Allentown

    Allentown Member

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    Truth be told all of these are two finger handles but the M&P comes with one extended mag and the XDS comes with an optional extended Mag (althougn not avail in .40 as mentioned above).

    I would love to just dump the decision making and get a glock .27 but i really want a single stack and don't want a perce grip extension WITH a fat gun to get all 3 fingers around it.

    The Smith automatically comes with the extended mag for no extra $ but the XDS has the nice fiber optic sights....... My Kahr K9 was rock solid but i too have seen several posts complaning about problems with the gun. For that matter the Sig 938 (a 9mm) might have been an option but i didnt want a gun that required cocked and locked carry that might end up in a front pocket at some point (and that gun has many complaints as well).

    Reliability wise is the XDS vs the Shield have a better reputation?

    If not it comes down to the stock fiber optic sights vs an included extended factory mag.... in which case id probably get the XDS and purchase an extended mag or two (i dont know im just thinking in text here)....

    im anticipating both (and the mags) are going to be a virtual treasure hunt to find.....
     
  6. Potatohead

    Potatohead Member

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    What about the ruger SR series? I love my SR9, and the C's are quite popular
     
  7. allaroundhunter

    allaroundhunter Member

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    Around me I can find both shield and XDs mags easily. My LGS actually has about 20 of each in stock right now.
     
  8. danimoth17

    danimoth17 Member

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    Bersa bp40cc would fit your requirements except weight is 22oz
     
  9. ku4hx

    ku4hx Member

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    I have this and I agree ... just dump and buy.
     
  10. HexHead

    HexHead Member

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    I'd get the Glock. No deep thought necessary.
     
  11. snooperman

    snooperman Member

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    +1 on the Glock 27.
     
  12. Tomac

    Tomac Member

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    Wife and I have personal experience w/4 Khars (P380, CM9 & 2 CW9's) and all have been 100% to date. For CCW you're not going to get much smaller w/o major compromises in cost, recoil, reliability, controllability, etc.
    Another vote for 9mm vs .40 in the small guns due to severe recoil.
    Tomac
     
  13. Soldiernurse

    Soldiernurse Member

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    If, your willing to move up to 21.5oz I highly recommend an XDs45. I own both Shield 40 & XDs45. The latter is far more pleasant to shoot. I was very surprised the XDs's relatively light recoil first time I shot it. For me, my Shield is a little snappy. BTW, I have other 40 cal's that are not snappy. Both very accurate but for me the XDs45 gets the edge.

    I've not shot the new XDs9 but heard good reviews for those that prefer the 9mm. I have a little bit of both 9mm & 40S&W.
     
  14. Allentown

    Allentown Member

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    Thanks for all the great feedback guys.

    Today i started looking strictly at wt of the guns (I really want to actually CARRY this gun and not end up leaving it at home) and it looks like the two that are REALLY the most pocketable are the Karh PM/CM series and the M&P Shield.

    The Kahr wins hands down being between 3.2 (40 cal) to 5 oz (9mm) lighter than the Shield but the Kahr is fricken $400 more on its MSRP (and no i dont plan on paying retail but....) than the Shield unless you get the econo "CM" series which gives you only 1 magazine and uses convential rifling.....

    This leaves me to wonder if i am not getting a lot more gun for my money via sucking up the 3oz to 5oz and getting the shield with 2 mags and all the features... (Then again 3 to 5oz is a TON OF WT for what im trying to accomplish here. Decisions decisions....)

    But that begs the question. What kind of rifiling does the Shield use? If its convential also then the Karh isnt a bad by in the "CM" series at only $40 diference over a shield.

    Just to make it easy for you, ill include the links:

    40cal: Kahr= .94 thick and 15.8 oz 5+1 capacity/Shield= .95 thick, 19oz and 6+1 capacity (fit flush)

    http://www.kahr.com/Pistols/Kahr-CM40.asp

    http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/...80153_757781_757781_ProductDisplayErrorView_Y

    9mm: Karh=.90 thick and 14.0z 6+1 capacity/Shield = .95 thick, 19oz 7+1 capacity (fit flush)

    http://www.kahr.com/Pistols/Kahr-CM9.asp

    http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/...80153_757781_757781_ProductDisplayErrorView_Y

    The Shield is cheaper and wouldnt require an immediate purchase of a spare mag but i must admit, that little .9 inch thick 14oz kahr looks sweet (let the whole....."yea but 6+1 capacity of 9mm is only A SLIGHT improvement of your Ruger LCR with 5 rds of 38+p!" comments begin....)
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2013
  15. Allentown

    Allentown Member

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    SoldierNurse-

    I agree That XDS .45 is a merits serious consideration at 21.5 oz as well.

    Danimoth 17

    I cant seem to find the BPcc.40 on the bersa site. Is it even out yet? I know Bersa is generally a bargain price, very reliable, high value choice and i would never knock them after all the great press the .380 Thunder always gets.

    Potatohead

    I just cant get around the LC9 looking like a keltech clone. Not to knock it. My keltech PA3T in .32 was very reliable. I just have a special dislike for kel tech triggers and they dont seem to hold up as well over the long haul.

    Glock 27 fans.
    no offense but we all agree that while the Glock meets the durability/reliability and wt requirements.... its just too fat to ever be a pocketable or comfortable enough to in the ways you would a kahr cm or shield gun. Now im going to really piss you off and say that to me the mini glocks have no purpose. They are so fat that when i look at them, always think "why bother" as i would just get compact version instead as the mini glocks would not be all that much easier to cart all day then the compacts (because the are really not that "mini" to me). The Glock 36 being the exception to this of course.
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2013
  16. David E

    David E Member

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    It's your decision. Rent them, shoot them and decide.

    I wouldn't let a couple ounces keep me from choosing the gun I may shoot better.
     
  17. Soldiernurse

    Soldiernurse Member

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    XDs45 trigger is far superior to Kahr :p
    Yet, if your firm on wanting a .40S&W, then Shield 40 it is ;)
     
  18. tomrkba

    tomrkba Member

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    There is no one gun that will do it all. You really should consider at least three, perhaps four, guns to cover all situations. Add a heavy revolver if you want a woods gun.

    I can tell your attitude is that of a casual shooter. You prefer convenience over effectiveness. Jim Cirillo pointed out that you will never wish for a smaller gun with fewer cartridges in a fight. You should operate from this position rather than the opposite. The reason is six shots out of a pocket gun goes too quickly when shooting at a moving target. You must account for misses; they will happen so long as the bad guy(s) get(s) a say in the outcome. They will not sit still waiting for you to shoot them. People can tell you to "be more accurate" all day long, but that doesn't change the fact that bad guys move around randomly and occasionally shoot back!
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2013
  19. Allentown

    Allentown Member

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    Tomrkba:
    Definately good advice and one of the reasons why i have a Sig P229 with 7 15rd Mecgar magazines and crimson trace laser grips. (That would give me about 106rds in a fire fight.) ;)

    If thats not enough...My Daniel defense M4 has about 35 of the 30rd mags waiting in the winds (two of them in the gun snapped together in a fast mag configuration with a mag pul side by side clip).

    No my thinking here is i want to be armed 24/7 and of course the Ruger LCR meets that bill..... so your preaching to the choir a little as i want to be MORE armend than 5 rounds of .38 but i want it to be pocketable still. 7 rds of .40 cal (or even 6 rds of .45) and a spare mag in the pocket definately fits be bill of being (more armed)...

    To be honest, i would get the compact XDM (that seems like a hell of a combat system) if i were just buying ONE gun, but i really dont need another full size 30oz+ gun because there is no way id give up my Sig P229 in 9mm (that thing is accurate, boringly reliable, will eat +P for breakfast and its a soft shooter that runs all day without tiring the gun or me....then runs some more).

    Soldiernurse:

    You got my attention with that XDS. 45 Im looking at it seriously now.

    Which has the better trigger between the xds .45 and the shield .40? Anyone know??

    Again everyone thank you! Opinions may vary but there is no such thing as a "bad opinion" when im specificially asking for everyones opinion on this.
     
  20. tomrkba

    tomrkba Member

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    So go with a Ruger LCP, Kahr PM9/SIG P938/etc, Glock 26 and keep the SIG P229. This would cover just about any "clothing" situation you may find yourself in. Buy a good IWB holster, a pancake style holster and maybe a few appendix carry holsters. Add pocket holsters where it makes sense. You're done once you get 12-20 mags each (they wear out over time and do not get attached to them), two mag holders and a good gun belt.

    My original post to you looked like this:

    Buy six and shoot them for awhile.
    Sell four
    Buy three more and shoot them for awhile.
    Sell one or two
    Buy four or five more, preferably one or two you already sold.
    Sell a couple of those.
    Buy a 1911. Shoot it, sell it, and repeat three times.

    By then, most of it should be out of your system and you can now purchase duplicates of the ones you like to cover for loss, trips to the gun smith, etc.
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2013
  21. VetPsychWars

    VetPsychWars Member

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    Can't help you. I carry a full-size 1911 for everything in a Galco V-Hawk IWB holster. Never thought it was too heavy.

    In other words, I'm questioning your requirements.

    Tom
     
  22. MCMXI

    MCMXI Member

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    Allentown, I currently use a SIG P239 for EDC and as good as it is I wanted to move to something lighter. I chose an XD-S based entirely on my preference for .45 Auto and the excellent reviews I've read on this and other forums. I bought the pistol from Springfield without ever seeing, handling or shooting one. So far (four hours and 40 rounds) I'm very pleased with the pistol.

    The triggers are very similar based on shooting both for the first time tonight, so I wouldn't consider the trigger to be a deciding factor. The Shield feels better in the hand (grip shape/texture), but the XD-S is more enjoyable to shoot and is remarkably easy to handle for a small .45 Auto. The Shield in .40 S&W beat up my trigger finger a bit. Both are quite accurate. I would probably buy a Shield in 9mm if it didn't have a safety. I'll most likely buy an XD-S in 9mm at some point.

    [​IMG]
     
  23. Bongo Boy

    Bongo Boy Member

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    Interesting set of recommendations--all over the board, of course. I own two M&Ps and love them, but for a small 40SW carry I found my dream gun in the Kahr K40. So, I'm happy to add 5 oz over what you wanted, and get all 4 fingers on the grip. I'd consider the CW40 long before I'd consider the Shield, and yes I think you're getting far more for your money in the Kahr. I bought mine used for $450 in mint condition--so naturally I'm a happy guy. That's unlikely to ever happen again in our lifetimes.

    Yup, you'd have to train quite a bit, IMO, to get accustomed to the long DA trigger--no doubt about it. I have about 1,000 rds through my K40 and feel I'm just now getting to the point where I don't hesistate with it. I seriously don't think it's going to ever be a problem "in real life". Astoundingly accurate little guns, and not 'accurate for a little gun', just plain accurate, period.

    I consider it a little tiny gun...

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  24. JohnBiltz

    JohnBiltz Member

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    I don't think I'd want a small .40. From the number of used small .40s you see in gun stores a lot of people agree with me.
    Correct me if I'm wrong but you are planning on pocket carrying this? I think they are too big for pocket carry all the time. They are really small IWB guns.
     
  25. danimoth17

    danimoth17 Member

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    well looks like bersa announced the BP 9 and 40 in 2009. came out with the 9mm in 2010. their website talkes about both the 9 and 40 in their description of the BP series but never mentions that they still have not produced the 40.

    I contaced Bersa Sales and they said they hope to have the 40 out this fall, sorry i didnt realize it wasnt available yet.
     
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