variations of the 4 rules

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ctdonath said -
As Cooper has repeatedly observed, the problem with "as if" is that it undermines the gravity of the rule: with a wink and a nod, we subconsciously think "well, I know it really isn't and that's ok" - a truly dangerous mindset.

It is well understood in law that laws may be suspended under specific, immediate, articulable, necessary situations. Yes, you must pull the trigger on an empty chamber to disassemble many guns: just as the notion of "strict scrutiny" applies in court, where a violation may be excused under an affirmative defense, you can violate rules 1 & 2 to clean your gun so long as you have immediately proven to yourself that it is indeed safe and necessary to do so. As others note, you put down that gun you just checked, and when you pick it up you check it again. You also, when pulling the trigger to disassemble the gun, make absolutely sure you're obeying rules 2 & 4 in case, somehow, you're wrong (like the kid who racked the slide, removed the magazine, pointed the pistol at his head, smiled at his friend on the phone, and promptly didn't/couldn't know that he made a grave mistake).

See, the difference between these two approaches is
- a casual wink-and-nod dismissal of the rule
vs.
- a strict duly-informed temporary suspension of the rule.
That can be a life-threatening difference.

Cooper wrote his rules a specific way for very detailed reasons. He has considered them in light of input from the finest minds on the subject. They are written that way for very good reason. It would behoove those less wise to defer to the conclusions of those more so.

I agree completely. This was my intent of following the Rules with what I called "gun store protocols". I believe this is a duly-informed suspension of the rules. You don't ignore them, you inspect and verify before temporarily violating them as necessary. I believe it is important to realize just how temporary a protection the inspection provides, and that all present need to be involved.

There was a posting recently of a ND by someone who racked the slide on a Ruger .22 and saw empty chamber, pulled the trigger and put one into the floor. It seems someone else helped him out after his inspection by re-inserting the magazine. He didn't notice this when he picked it up a few seconds later.

I believe this is the intent of Mr. Cooper's Rules, and the use of the word always. If you let it out of your sight or hands, you no longer know it's unloaded. Therefore, it's loaded, and you have to inspect and verify before breaking the Rule.

I like it. Don't rewrite the Rules. Just make darn sure you know under what conditions you're allowed to temporarily suspend them.
 
dmazur (#51) says:

There was a posting recently of a ND by someone who racked the slide on a Ruger .22 and saw empty chamber, pulled the trigger and put one into the floor. It seems someone else helped him out after his inspection by re-inserting the magazine. He didn't notice this when he picked it up a few seconds later.

Lest there be misunderstanding of my position, this person did clearly violate safe handling procedures. Once the firearm went out of his direct observation and control, even for a few seconds, he no longer knew whether it was loaded or not. He should have checked it again.

I do not know how "always loaded" rather than "as if always loaded" would have prevented this. I am not being deliberately contentious; I honestly don't see the application. It was out of his direct observation and control for however short a time, and he simply should have checked it again. At least that seems obvious to me.

regards,

GR
 
Man....some of you are really safety conscious aren't you? Here are my four...although keep in mind they might be tongue in cheek.

1. Bring enough ammo. Nothing will ruin your firefight faster than getting shot because you didn't bring enough to finish the fight.

2. Bring enough water for the mission....then add just a bit extra to be sure.

3. Have a plan to kill everyone you meet. They probably won't need it....but be prepared.

4. In case you've forgotten rule one.....take enough ammo....then add some more!
 
Guys - I'm not saying the 4 rules are useless, that they shouldn't be followed. All I'm saying is that we're human beings, not robots. The universe isn't a digital, yes/no, off/on place. The universe is analog and every situation is different. The 4 rules do a decent job of providing good, common sense gun handling guidance in many, if not most, situations one might find himself in. BUT! - NOT ALL! Blindly following the 4 rules (and yes there are those that do or profess to do just that) can and will occasionally fail you. When one does, fail you that is, you better be prepared to break the rule or suffer the consequences.

Gentleman Ranker said:
Werewolf, would you care to list some exceptions to the rules? I'd be interested to hear what you think they are.

To be fair I can only note all the time exceptions to rules one and two. For rules 3 and 4 the exceptions only exist in time critical circumstances. I note the exceptions below.

Rule 1: Already beat to death in this thread - the rule as written is absurd. Treating every gun as loaded and blindly following the rule precludes any action with that gun other than shooting it. Once a gun is correctly checked to make sure it is unloaded then it is by GOD unloaded. It cannot fire a bullet out of it if there is no cartridge loaded into it anymore than a loaded gun can leap off a table and kill an innocent child all by itself.

As a weapon it is less useful than a knife, a club or a brick. What :eek: - you say, "more people have been killed by unloaded weapons than loaded ones". BS! Garbage! Those people were all killed with weapons their users were too stupid to verify were unloaded. They were killed by careless, unthinking idiots; not by an unloaded gun. The gun wasn't responsible; the fool wielding it was. And make no bones about it - anyone who handles a firearm and doesn't know its condition re:loaded/unloaded is indeed a fool!

In addition, an unloaded gun negates the real necessity (but not the practical necessity) of following rules 2 thru 4 except as noted below. Of course not following rules 2 thru 4 might get you hurt or even killed if you point a gun at someone who isn't aware that it is unloaded. For those of you who get all freaky (you know who you are) because someone points a gun at you that you know is unloaded - you checked it yourself - seek professional help.

Rule 2: Never point a gun at anything you're not willing to destroy. Again - absurd. The act of withdrawing a gun from its holster will quite often result in it pointing at something you don't wish to destroy at least momentarily (especially if you carry in a shoulder holster as I do occassionally).

Regardless, blindly following rule 2 pretty much negates the deterent factor a gun has. And yes guns can be and are a deterrent. Staring down the barrel of a 1911 wielded by a soldier, or a .38 wielded by a cop or home owner, has undoubtedly caused many a man to think twice about continuing along the course of action he was pursuing before that gun was pointed at him. It has been estimated that guns are used 2 million times a year by citizens to stop a crime where no shot is ever fired. Many of those uses were by people who undoubtedly were not willing to kill with their gun but were quite willing to point it in the, not unreasonable, belief that the gun would deter. Most of the time they were right. Would we all have those deterrent uses by people unwilling to kill just go away and accept the consequences? I'm certainly not willing to tell all those people you can't point that gun at your assailant anymore because you'd be breaking rule two - you've got to die or be hurt or watch a family member or friend be hurt instead. Blindly following rule two would make all those deterrent uses by those unwilling to kill in their own defense just go away.

Rule 3: Well - with this one, under normal, non-critical, circumstances I can find no exceptions. That said in a real life situation where, for example, one is clearing one's home during a home invasion (please - lets not get into whether that's a wise action or not - depending on circumstances, sometimes it will be sometimes not) my finger will be on the trigger and my weapon will be ready to fire at all times.

.3 seconds is the time it takes to send the signal from the brain to your finger for the average person. .3 seconds to react and move your finger to the trigger and fire could mean the differenct between life and death. We're not all Jerry Miculek whose speed is almost supernatural. I know I'm not. My best recorded time to fire from the beep is .5 seconds with finger off trigger, .22 with finger on trigger.

My life is more valuable to me than some rule.

At the range - finger off the trigger until I'm ready to shoot.

In a real life, time critical situation - it's there and ready to pull. To all you superheroes with superfast reflexes its cool to be you. Better hope though, that the guy in the hallway you meet isn't a superhero too.

Rule 4: Again under normal circumstances I can find no exceptions to this rule. that said in time critical situations in an unfamiliar environment taking the time to evaluate what's behind and around your target could very well get you killed. Deal with the threat now. Worry about the consequences later. If you choose to do otherwise you might just end up dead. As it has been said - better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6. As I said before we're not all Jerry Miculeks.

Those are exceptions I can think of. I'm not all that creative. I bet there are others if one took the time to think about it.

Point being - as stated before - 4 rules; common sense, guidance; not engraved in granite.

Think about it.
 
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